I need some information from this pw

Discussion in 'Chronometers' started by sternerp, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

    Nov 23, 2010
    25
    1
    0
    Country Flag:
    Dear forum members!


    I want to receive information from this pocket watch, if anyone has any information, please share with me here in the forum.


    Best regards! Peter from Hungary
     

    Attached Files:

    • pw1.jpg
      File size:
      150.3 KB
      Views:
      44
    • pw2.jpg
      File size:
      173.5 KB
      Views:
      77
    • pw3.jpg
      File size:
      401.8 KB
      Views:
      43
  2. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User

    Feb 28, 2010
    3,446
    9
    38
    Hi Peter, for a start it is High Grade with a Chronometer Balance and it is Freesprung. It possibly is an unsigned Deck Watch. I think that it is Birmingham 1888. I would love to have it. Regards Ray
     
  3. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
    Donor

    Dec 28, 2010
    857
    5
    18
    So. Cal., USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes, very interesting watch. I've seen larger ship's chronometers with that style of balance (helical hairspring and large counterweights), but not one in what looks to be pocket-watch size. It would be interesting to find out whether or not the movement is signed under the dial.

    If you don't get as much information as you'd like here, you might try posting your question and images in the "Chronometer" section. Good luck.
     
  4. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    7,304
    26
    48
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Peter,

    Ray is quite right, it's dated 1888 and has a chronometer type balance, more specifically an Earnshaw pattern, (which doesn't mean it was made by the Earnshaws I'm afraid). Whether it also has a spring detent escapement isn't clear, but it looks as though it might have. These escapements are quite delicate, and shouldn't be dismantled unless you have a lot of experience with them. The hairspring is helical, and it's freesprung, which means that there's no regulator for the owner to fiddle with and undo the adjuster's delicate work.

    The "A.B" shows that the case was made by the Dennison Watch Case Company in Birmingham.

    These watches are not that common, and this one looks as though it's in reasonable condition, although missing the seconds hand and in need of a clean.

    If it would be better in the Chronometer section, you can ask a Moderator to move it rather than posting again.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  5. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

    Nov 23, 2010
    25
    1
    0
    Country Flag:
    Hi Graham, Ray, and MrRoundel!
    Thank you very much for your quick answer and new information, in the meantime, i was looking for information, and i talked my watchmaker friend. I'm just amateur collector, and i can not restore this to working order. I sent this to my watchmaker, he will produce from this more photos when dismantled.
    what i saw it: its chronometer escapement, but unfortunately incomplete, staff balance is broken, damaged second pivot is lost, and some teeth on the escape wheel faulty. My watchmaker will much work, by the time to completed this.
    https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/Birmingham-AA-AB.html#AB
    On this site the Birmingham Silver Marks says about the A.B mark:
    Waltham Watch Company, 1882-1900, AB (Alfred Bedford) was the manager of the Waltham Watch Co, Holborn Circus, London
    and the other marks in Birmingham Date Letters it shows this watch produced really in the year 1888.
    Regards! Peter
     
  6. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    7,304
    26
    48
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Peter,

    There was a close relationship between Dennisons and the UK operation of Waltham. I'm glad you're having the watch restored, it's well worth it.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  7. MartyR

    MartyR Super Moderator
    NAWCC Member Donor

    Dec 16, 2008
    9,807
    13
    38
    UK
    Country Flag:
    Peter, I'm moving this as suggested to the Chronometer Forum, where I hope it may attract fiuurther interest :D
     
  8. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

    Nov 23, 2010
    25
    1
    0
    Country Flag:
    Hi Graham!

    Which silver marks presents that this is a Dennisons watch case?

    Anchor mark -> Birmingham
    O letter mark -> 1888
    the walking lion -> sterling silver
    and A.B the makers mark

    Or the shape of the casing can be concluded that?

    Regards! Peter
     
  9. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

    Nov 23, 2010
    25
    1
    0
    Country Flag:
    Hi Martin!

    I was heedless, and did not realize there is separately section for chronometer watches. Thank you that were transferred here.
     
  10. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    7,304
    26
    48
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Peter,

    The marks in themselves don't tell anything other than what you've stated, and neither does the style of the case, it's the history behind the people involved which is the interesting part. The sponsor's (otherwise called the "maker's") mark "A•B" was, as has been said, for Alfred Bedford, the manager of Waltham's UK operation. However, this company did not own a case making facility in the UK although they implied that they did, but in fact they had cases made by the Dennison Watch Case Company. For various reasons which aren't entirely clear, Aaron Lufkin Dennison's mark, ("ALD"), wasn't used in the cases, but Bedford's was.

    I think it's clear that the movement in your watch had nothing whatever to do with Waltham. Pocket chronometers like this were always expensive and relatively uncommon; many were indeed used as deck watches on ships to carry the time from the main chronometers, installed safely below decks, to the navigating officers who were taking the noon sightings with their sextants. Others were bought by relatively wealthy people who just wanted a piece of advanced technology to wear and show off. Their main disadvantage as portable timepieces was that they did not respond well to rough treatment, being inclined to stop if shaken or jolted, (which was essential in a navigational instrument), although when gently treated they were accurate timekeepers.

    I don't know if your watchmaker has noticed it, but the spring for the barrel click on the barrel bar is missing; you can see the faint shadow of it and the holes for the screw and steady pin.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  11. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

    Nov 23, 2010
    25
    1
    0
    Country Flag:
    Dear MrRoundel!

    Earlier was not in my hands like this, but i have one Dr. H Crott catalogue from year 2007 (the Gerd Ahrens collection), there also shows more of these similar pieces (pocket chronometer).

    Regards! Peter
     
  12. SKennedy

    SKennedy Registered User

    Jan 5, 2017
    81
    1
    8
    Country Flag:
    A very nice looking movement, it'd be interesting to see more of it. I am wondering if it has been recased however and also that the dial may not be the original.

    It looks to me as though the seconds hand arbor is not central to the hole in the dial and that the hole might have been enlarged slightly upwards towards the dial centre.

    The case looks to have a bit of room between it and the movement plate and the cut out for the single retaining screw is bigger than it needs to be. I'd expect a chronometer to all be just-so. Its just a hunch/guess really, maybe it is all right. It can be difficult to get a feel for something like this from photos. But if there are other signs of it being re-cased then the case marks can't be used to provide info relevant to the movement.

    Regards,
    Seth
     
  13. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

    Nov 23, 2010
    25
    1
    0
    Country Flag:
    Hi Seth!

    You are very good eyes, this dial really not original. (the original dial was fixed with 3 dial feet, the current just 2 dial feet)
    Meantime i got more photos from my watchmaker friend, i upload these also. That this movement are recased earlier, i can not decide, perhaps new pictures going to help.
    In my book (Gerd Ahrens collection) are listed similar pocket chronometers examples of silver and gold case also.


    Thank you everyone for the posts, i read all comments happy on this subject.

    Best regards! Peter
     

    Attached Files:

Loading...
Similar Threads - need information Forum Date
Chronometry: How to find information on Hamilton Chronometer Model 21 Serial Number Chronometers Dec 3, 2016

Share This Page