I need 3 gears on the front of a clock

Discussion in 'Clock Construction' started by James Matheson, Mar 9, 2018.

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  1. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    Jul 21, 2016
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    Hi There I need 3 gears on the front of a clock to make it rewind with less torque and more rpm.

    Can anyone put 3 gears on the front of a clock for me

    There are absolutely no clock makers left in Canada, it is devastating

    Please help

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/E6KnNCnQCmLkrFEo1

    truly needed
     
  2. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I'm not clear on what you're asking for, James. The gears shown in your pic don't affect the winding or the rpm. And on a clock, do you really want to alter the rpm?
     
  3. lpbp

    lpbp Registered User
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    Maybe no clockmakers, but surely competent repair persons, contact a local NAWCC chapter in your area.
     
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  4. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    There are no clock repair people left in Canada. No one sells clocks. Let me promise you the groups who are with clocks are not from and nor do they get their clocks serviced in Canada. Thats a promise. That's why this area should be covered. In my opinion if anyone comes up with an answer to fix this no clock makers problem they should be rewarded. I fixed the problem and I'm bring refused. Its very frustrating
     
  5. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    Jul 21, 2016
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    I don't quite understand what I didn't include. Here is a video
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/M708ptFVKPEB7dF32
    I'm trying to keep my posts unique to each question so I'm not spamming to get my answer. So far I've said
    Motor move motor
    What type of motor
    Who can attach a motor
    And gearing on front
    Hopefully you can help Canadians have a wind up industry. There's a lot of need for my device. There's countless people who need to have jobs with disabilities like myself. I hope you will have pity on 35 million people with no clock industry.
     
  6. David S

    David S Registered User
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    James I am not sure where you live but there certainly are clock repair folks in Canada. Even here in our small city there is a bricks and mortar clock shop down town that sells and repairs clocks. I also repair clocks.

    David
     
  7. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    James, you don't understand the principles of gearing. You want to wind the lower end of the train by turning gears in the upper end, instead of winding the lower end with a key. Forget that; the physics and the forces are against you. If you could pull it off, you'd have to turn your upper gear many times in order to achieve a fraction of a turn at the lower end.

    I urge you to look for a different project.
     
  8. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    Jul 21, 2016
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    Clock are my life
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/E6KnNCnQCmLkrFEo1
    Honestly a clock means more than anything I can tell you and if there gears on the front of a clock can save the industry then obviously that is what had to be done.
    Please find me someone to put three simple gears on the front of a encased spring
     
  9. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    James,

    You might consider the Clock Construction category. Your project would more be in the area of design and execution, then repair or general discussion.

    Clock Construction

    If I understand you right, you want to make the clock easier to manually wind and am not concerned with the longer wind time or number of turns to the key.

    I agree, it' just a matter of adding the necessary gearing to the existing winding arbor. Gustav Becker added gears on some of their Westminster clocks, if I remember
    right.

    A moderator might consider moving your thread there.

    Ralph
     
  10. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    #10 shutterbug, Mar 11, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
    The video helps. I finally understand what you are attempting :) The issue is going to be calculating the position of the gears so they are meshing properly. That will require a depthing tool. I think Ralph is correct in that this is more in line with constructing movements. I'll move it over there. I hope you have success in your design modification. By the way, do you have the wheels? Are they the ones shown in the video?
    EDIT: I mentioned in your other thread that I believe your idea is sound, but the design is flawed. It needs to be geared from largest to smallest, so the torque is strongest at the barrel. Of cours, I could be wrong about that too. I also believe you will need to wind the arbor, not the main gear on the barrel, and that will require another gear on the winding arbor, above the click. I hope the guys in this forum can help you more!
     
  11. Jerry Kieffer

    Jerry Kieffer Registered User
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    James
    What you wish to do is of no issue what so ever.

    Involute spur gears and pinions are readily available from companies such as "Boston Gear" or any machine tool supply house. I would suggest steel gears at least .200" wide and 48 pitch for smooth operation. They will run about $20.00 - $40.00 each.

    Horological repair people are not always setup for construction projects and typically do not have much if any experience in this field. I would suggest attending one of the many Gas and Steam shows in Canada and or your area. You should be able to find a Model engineer who builds models or a retired machinist to take on your project. just ask around at the show or in your area.

    By looking at the gear train in your photo, I would guess your looking at about a 200 or 250 to one reduction. This in turn would require at least a 1000 turns to wind a clock if I am not mistaken. A very long hard road that would get old before I personally would get done with the first winding, at least by my hand.

    I sometimes get requests from elderly or handicapped persons who are having issues winding their clocks. I resolve this by making a simple long armed crank that allows them to wind the clock with very little effort in a timely fashion.

    jerry Kieffer
     
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  12. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    From what James mentioned in another thread, I think his intent is to attach an electric motor do the actual winding ;)
     
  13. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    The way I understood it is that he's looking to prototype a system where he can attach one motor to an existing wheel, high in the train and use it as a generator to turn another motor that (using these three gears) will, in turn, wind the clock.
    If all the laws of physics and conservation of energy were ignored and somehow, the winder worked, there will still be an issue with what happens when the clock is fully wound or otherwise reaches equilibrium.
     
  14. David S

    David S Registered User
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    Martin it seems that is one of his proposals. However there seems to be conflicting posts on his behalf. I saw one where he suggested using a mechanical clock to charge a usb device. In his first post the kinetic charger was mentioned.

    Putting gears on the plate is easy, although not quite cantilevered as is shown in one post.

    Motors were shown in the initial thread, one powering the other.

    While I wouldn't mind helping, I am not sure what the end game is.

    David
     
  15. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Whatever the aim is, I don't see it being the panacea he intends.
     
  16. David S

    David S Registered User
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    Nick there are too many unclear posts that James has made for me to really understand the end game.

    However if someone is interested in some sort of horology advancement, then I think we should work with them until we know enough that it won't work.

    Having said all this, James seems to have been absent for awhile so perhaps this topic will just fade away .

    David
     
  17. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    Would you please tell take on my project? Please contact me at 647 9138701
    I wish there was a retired engineer.
    There's no one. on top.of it we completely lost the entire clock industry.
    People are telling us to throw our clocks out is how bad it is.
    My project is simple
    The front is geared up and the slow motor moves the fast motor that keeps the clock rewound. It is very simple.
    Please help me with this
    This project truly means everything to me.
     
  18. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Are you saying that with your system the clock will never need winding again?
     
  19. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    If you are interested.
     
  20. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    If you are interested.
     
  21. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    If so it won't work.
     
  22. David S

    David S Registered User
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    Yes.

    David
     
  23. Phil Burman

    Phil Burman Registered User

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    James, I think people here may be willing to help but are reluctant to spend time on a hair brain scheme, and at the moment, after 15 posts, it seems to look like one. Unless you explain clearly what you are trying to achieve I think you will continue to meet resistance.

    Just a thought.

    Phil

    PS: it would also help if you were to indicate if you are prepared to pay for the assistance.
     
  24. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    Thank you for your reply
     
  25. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    I definitely am asking to pay
     
  26. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    I can make the slowest possible motor moving at 300 rpm rewind that in 3 minutes. If I used a standard motor it would be done in one.
    I hope I can inspire you to help me.
    Money is my only good quality
     
  27. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

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    I have an early 40s Seth Thomas 4/4 chiming mantle clock, this is a mains powered 240volt electric clock, the electric motor directly driving the hands through 3 or 4 gears, the chime and strike trains are mechanical each with their own mainspring barrels, these two spring barrels are constantly wound via a set of reduction gears to the centre arbor that the minute hand is fitted to.

    The mainsprings have a slipping bridle much like you would find in an automatic watch mainsprings barrel, the mainsprings are not hooked to the barrels, ok.

    With your idea you cannot just simply hook a motor driven gearbox to a spring barrel in a clock, you will have to have some method of turning it on, count a number of winds then turn off, problems I can see is predicting how many winds the clock will need, even if you wound the clock halfway then set the motor to wind each day with enough turns to run the clock one day, eventually the motor winds a bit less each day so the clock will stop and won't trip the motor to wind,

    Or it winds a bit more each day to the stage where it is fully wound and jams the motor and won't turn off because it's trying to wind that last turn and ends up frying the motor.

    Still don't see where you are going with this, lack of repairers means the clocks don't get serviced, adding an electric winding to a mechanical clock isn't going to make it work better, it still will need servicing.
     
  28. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    I made a few, i just need to be around a supportive group. It's a simple project.
    Here is how it works
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/fCmAjNRkcMnWl6iL2
    Easiest thing in the world
    Hopefully there's somewhere I can find a supportive group
     
  29. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    If you have made a few, and it is the easiest thing in the world, why are you finding it so difficult, and why have you not shown us a complete one actually working?
     
  30. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    If you think what you are calling a battery in your video, is a battery, you are hopelessly lost in your project. Don't waste any more money on it.
     
  31. Styrofoam_Guy

    Styrofoam_Guy Registered User
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    James

    If you are in the Toronto Ontario area we have a club meeting Sunday March 25, 2018
    CROWNE PLAZA HOTEL, 33 Carlson Court, Etobicoke, ON
    torontochapter33.ca - Home

    The meeting normally starts around 8am
    We have quite a few members that do clock repairs and some that can manufacture clock parts. They are also fairly knowledgeable in all sorts of clock mechanisms.
     
  32. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    Jul 21, 2016
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    Hi I wasn't capable of attending.
    If you could direct me to anyone who can make parts , my project is simple and very needed. I am about to tour America to get my project completed. You would be saving me a lot of time and money. Thank you for replying
     
  33. Styrofoam_Guy

    Styrofoam_Guy Registered User
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    It is unfortunate that you were able to attend as it would have been the perfect opportunity to explain your project.

    You could go to the club web site
    torontochapter33.ca - Services

    There is an email for a member Ben Orszulak. He has meetings in the Grimsby area where you could discuss your project.

    Our next Chapter 33 meeting is in May. The information is listed on our web site.
     
  34. James Matheson

    James Matheson Registered User
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    Jul 21, 2016
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    Actually Toronto knows my work
    I even spoke briefly to the London chapter and he knew my project.
    I located three companies not associated with nawcc who agreed to help. I hope nawcc will make it so someone from.their group helps.me
     

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