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I hate 6 size watches but...

John Cote

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Rules are meant to be broken I guess. One of my rules is to avoid 6 size watches. When I had the opportunity to buy this one yesterday the rule was easy to break for numerous reasons. First, I have always admired and wanted an Elgin grade 71 with its raised gold jewel settings. Second, finding a 71 in a case as nice as this was certainly the way to find one. The case is as new looking as any I have ever found and the decoration, to me, is stunning.

Does anyone know the maker...L & S? It doesn't show up, at least that I can find, in any of my mark books.

Elgin6sMulti-CsBk.jpg

Elgin6sMulti-CsFt.jpg

Elgin6sMulti-Dial.jpg

Elgin6sMulti-Mvt.jpg

Elgin6sMulti-CsMk.jpg
 

musicguy

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I like your new 6s watch but not your 6s rule. I think
they are a great size!! and obviously now you do to. ;)



Rob
 

John Cote

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I like your new 6s watch but not your 6s rule. I think
they are a great size!! and obviously now you do to. ;)

Rob,

No, I still generally don't like 6 size watches. They are an odd in-between size which was not too popular when in production and the hardest size to sell even today. I just like this one....or maybe the cool example which will come my way tomorrow. I am a horrible addict after all.
 

John Cote

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You didn't break your 6s rule.
Actually, you are correct. I thought from the beginning that this watch was bigger than 6s even though all of the DBs show the grade 71 as such. I just measured the dial plate and it is indeed bigger and actually measures 8 size. Wayne Schlidt's old Elgin DB notes that some may have been made as 8s.

No wonder I like it. It's not a 6 size after all.
 
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musicguy

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John Cote

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musicguy

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Out of all my cases this 6s is one of my favorites.

2.jpg
3.jpg
4.jpg
page 18 of the M.G. Eppensteinx.png


Rob
 

Ethan Lipsig

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What's not to like about any size watch that is in excellent condition, with an excellent movement and case? Nothing, at least not for me. That's why I have many smaller watches in my collection. However, to my surprise, I only have one 6-size watch in my collection, this nice 14k Waltham Riverside Maximus Model 1890, one of only 500 made.

DSC01015.JPG DSC01016.JPG DSC01019.JPG DSC01030.JPG

My notes on this watch say that it is 42mm in diameter. A 6-size movement is 34.7mm in diameter, and a case for a watch this size would normally add 8-10 around millimeters to the diameter. I have quite a few watches that are 42-45mm in diameter, cased. This suggests that I must have other approx. 6-size watches though not listed as such in my records, but when I searched my Waltham collection for watches in the 42-45mm range, cased, I found that I had
  • 43mm: Three 10-size watches (two Riverside As and one Maximus A)
  • 44mm: One 12-size Riverside
  • 45mm: One 10-size Riverside A, and two 12-size Riverside As.
A 10-size movement is 38.10mm in diameter. A 12-size movement is 39.78mm in diameter. Because they are no more than 5.1mm greater in diameter than a 6-size, it's not surprising that all three watches could be around the same size when cased. A 6-size in a beefy case is likely to be at least as large as a 12-size in a svelte case.

I am fairly confident of one thing, John Cote probably hates 10-size and 12-size watches as much as he hates their slightly smaller cousins.
 
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Jerry Treiman

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Although Waltham made some very high-quality 6-size movements with nicely finished elements I really don't care for the over-all aesthetics of their 1890 model. There is just too much empty space around the essential train elements so that it looks like they just took an 0-size movement and enlarged the plates. In fact, the dial feet and 4th wheel arbor are in the same locations as those for the 1891-model 0-size such that an 1891 dial will drop right onto the 1890 model.
1891-1890.jpg

Therefore, as much as I am a fan of Waltham I must concur with John as to the beauty of the Elgin (I also like the Howard, Aurora and especially the Rockford). Here is my grade 71, the later 6-size version -
gr71d_m.jpg gr71case.jpg

As Ethan points out, a 6-size watch with a "beefy" case can be just as large as the later men's dress watches. Here is my nicest 6-size case alongside a 10-size Waltham man's watch.
6s-10s.jpg
 

Clint Geller

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In fairness to John's point of view, while I don't "hate" six size watches, I don't seek them out, either. I recently started a thread on the Am'n Watch Company grade Model 1873 8 Size, showing pix of my friend's collection, and the watches are gorgeous. And yet, I do not collect small watches, largely because men's watches of the period in which I am interested - the latter half of the nineteenth century - were primarily 16 Size and up. I have a very small watch collection by most people's lights here, consisting of only a few dozen pieces. The Howard G I showed earlier belongs to a friend. All of my own watches range from Size 16 up to one of my English 8-day pocket chronometers, which is something like a 23 Size. My favorite size is the Waltham 20 Size, of which I own four examples. I just like the heft and feel of a large watch. Some day I will wish to "complete" my American Watch Company grade Model set with a 12 Size Model 1894 and double zero Size Model 1891, but those are the only potential small watch purchases I currently foresee.
 
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musicguy

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while I don't "hate" six size watches, I don't seek them out
Clint,

This can be said by collectors(like you and others above) because
we all collect different things. I have a ton of pocket watches
but NONE of mine overlap any of yours. That obviously means
we like different things about the PW's we personally collect .
That's what makes this forum so good,
in that we all like different aspects of collecting pocket watches
and sometimes the only commonality are the PW's themselves and
we can share what we like about the ones we collect here on the forum.




Rob
 

John Cote

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What's not to like about any size watch that is in excellent condition, with an excellent movement and case? Nothing, at least not for me....

...I am fairly confident of one thing, John Cote probably hates 10-size and 12-size watches as much as he hates their slightly smaller cousins.
Ethan, I think you have understood and have given a worthy rebuttal to the sarcastic and intentionally provocative title to my post. I am not, generally, a huge fan of or collector of smaller, women's watches but I do like anything high grade, beautiful and in top condition.

BTW, who is the maker of the beautiful, top condition case you pictured above?
 

Ethan Lipsig

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John, the maker of the case in my #17 posting is a mystery. The case is marked M.F. & Co., which might stand for Marshall Field & Co., which wasn't a case manufacturer as far as I know. If anyone would identify the maker, I'd be grateful.

If I may be permitted to proselytize in favor of smaller watches, I would like to show just how nice 42mm-diameter cased pocket watches can be. All of the watches shown below are exactly the same overall size as my only 6-size watch even though their movements are larger. Except possibly for the last watch shown below, all of these watches are in U.S.-made cases even though all their movements are Swiss.

14k Agassiz in Jeannot & Shiebler Case

14k J&S Agassiz (2).jpg 14k J&S Agassiz (1).JPG

18k Bulova Phantom (Movement Probably by Louis-Elysée Piguet) in Bulova-signed Case

18k Bulova (2).JPG 18k Bulova (1).JPG

19k Bulova Phantom (Movement Probably by Louis-Elysée Piguet) in American Standard Case

19k Bulova (1) Am Standard,.JPG 19k Bulova (2).JPG 19k Bulova (3).JPG

14k & Enamel P. Ditisheim in Depollier Case

14k enamel depollier ditisheim (3).JPG 14k enamel depollier ditisheim (2).JPG

18k & Enamel Ducummon in Cress Arrow Case

18k enamel Ducummon Cresarrow.JPG 18k enamel Ducommon Cresarrow 2.JPG

18k IWC in Dubois Case

18k IWC 77 dubois (1).JPG 18k IWC 77 dubois (2).JPG

18k & Enamel C.H. Meylan in Cress Arrow Case

18k Meykan Cress arrow (2).JPG 18k Meykan Cress arrow (1).JPG

Platinum & Diamond Touchon in A. Wittnauer-signed Case

plat touchon aw (2).jpg plat touchon aw (3).JPG plat touchon aw (1).JPG
 

John Cote

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Ethan,

I have been giving a talk both at some Regionals and online for chapters about collecting. The title of the talk started out as "How to Build a Collection as Opposed to an Accumulation. The basic premise is that a collection has a theme or themes and tells a story or stories.

I think your collection and mine both have themes and both tell stories. Yours may be more one coherent story with a bunch of sub stories, while mine seems more a lot of different stories which don't go as well together into a whole theme.

My fear as a collector is that I will simply end up with an accumulation. This is much closer to what my dad did. He ended up with well over 1,000 and probably closer to double that of running watches. His collection told some stories but was much more based around buying everything he came across that was a good deal. My dad worked pretty hard at making sure he came across watches.

My love for the NAWCC is as much about learning about and making friends with collectors as it is about collecting and learning about watches. Since I have been giving this talk, I have met a lot of collectors and have learned a lot more about what can make a collection. Until recently I have avoided having the category of beautiful watches for the sake of beauty alone in my collection. My father poo-poo'd the idea of watches as jewelry.

You especially but others too have shown me that pretty watches, especially those that are pretty both inside and out are a worthy story/collection. I suppose the idea of saving these pretty watches, in any size, from the melt pot is also a factor.

"Forma dei munus"
 

musicguy

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My fear as a collector is that I will simply end up with an accumulation.
To some spouses if you buy more than one of an item it's an accumulation. ;)


Rob
 

musicguy

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I found this 6s in April and it's one of my favorite buys this year(sorry any
excuse to show it again :) ).

1873-6 Amn. Watch Co. circa 1887 16j
20211120_153709 (1).jpg





Rob
 

musicguy

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I love the RGJS on the Grade 71-6 size
E548D4B1-EF91-4E5F-AFBC-D21522F68C46.jpeg



Rob
 

Rick Hufnagel

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I like 6 sz, but do not really collect them for size … Seeing this started with the Elgin grade 71, here is an early example … Still looking for an 8sz … Has anyone see a smaller size dial signed like this, full script vs the usual various block signatures ..

View attachment 682020 View attachment 682021 View attachment 682022
John P,

I love this dial, and own one on a 16s grade 1. This is the first time I've seen the 6s version. Is your dial glass enamel? Have you measured the diameter or the movement? Sorry I'm just being a nerd.
5fcb3452cefe96af5ad8eb5649eac2ba (1).jpg
 
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