Hydepark Pocket watch.

[JohnGay]

And for better practice, I just received the Hydepark Pocket watch I recently purchased.

This is the movement. It seems large enough for me to be able to work on it without requiring an electron scanning microscope to see what I am doing.

It looks fairly clean inside, but when winding, the crown wheel seems to miss a few teeth occasionally?
The crown wheel itself looks good from an initial inspection, so I presume the problem is in the keyless works? I don't want to wind it too much incase that would cause more damage. It was not running when it arrived, but only a few winds get the watch running

And this is the inside of the back of the case.
The fit is a bit lop-sided. So I probably need to have a good look at the two mating parts and give it a clean at the very least. But I can get it off with my thumb nail, so that should be easy on the rolled gold.

I didn't take a photo of the dial but it seems to be clean and in good repair. It also has an off-center second hand which I think indicates it's older rather than younger.

But I am looking forward to having a good look at this movement, since I can actually see what I am doing with this one. Hopefully what ever of going on with the keyless works wound be a major problem. I would like to have this be a well running watch when I am ready to move on to the wristwatches I already have.

I look forward to any helpful information anyone might have regarding this watch.

Cheers,

John Gay

 

[viclip]

I fairly often find on new acquisitions that the screw retaining the crown wheel (the smaller winding gear) is loose thereby allowing that wheel to lift up slightly while winding causing it to miss the corresponding teeth on the ratchet wheel (the larger winding gear).

I'd double-check that the screws retaining both the crown wheel & the ratchet wheel are snugged down. Don't be surprised if one of them has a left-hand thread i.e. tightens CCW instead of the usual CW direction.

If both retaining screws are snug & no teeth are missing or damaged then you're likely facing an internal issue calling for the relevant plate to be removed for inspection.

 

[MrRoundel]

At first I was thinking that it might be a clutch or intermediate winding wheel that is missing teeth. After that my mind went to wear at the barrel arbor in the barrel-bridge and/or pillar-plate (roughbarked's suggestion). There's a youtube watchmaker in the Netherlands, Kalle Slaap of Chronoglide, who looks for issues with the barrel arbor to barrel-bridge mating very early into a service. It does make sense.

That said, I hope yours is just the crown-wheel or ratchet-wheel with a loose screw. Good luck.

 

[gmorse]

Hi John,

A couple of minor points, the screw in the red circle which secures the stem has some damage around it, showing that someone has worked on the watch who wasn't careful about using the right sized screwdriver. This may be related to your comment about a rough feeling when winding, since that screw holds down the setting piece which moves the mechanism between winding and setting modes.

The dial feet in the green circles don't have screws next to them, which suggests that the screws are instead buried in the edge of the plate and are probably quite small, so the right size screwdriver will be essential, because they may be deep inside.



Regards,

Graham

 

[eric the bully]

It is a Unitas caliber 101 lines 17.¾
Regards enrico

 

[JohnGay]

Thank you, everyone, for all the good tips!
Being more careful and watchful winding, I noticed if I keep the movement flat and wind carefully, it doesn't skip. And the crown screw does seem a little loose. Although I don't have my small screwdrivers with me at the moment. Hopefully that's the only problem. But I'll be sure to check for wear elsewhere while I'm inside this movement.
I also just realized the back is screw-on, not snap-on. And it seems to like to start crooked, so I have to be extra careful with that.
And a special thanks for the detailed screw identification tips. On the Wristwatch revival videos I've watched, all the dial screws he has come across have been from the sides, so that was what I was expecting. And I was a bit surprised when someone pointed out that another watch I have has the dial screws on the back of the movement.

But I really do love all the excellent tips, tricks and advice I continue to receive here! This is truly a very helpful community!

Cheers,

John Gay

 

[JohnGay]

I just noticed that the screw for the escape wheel bridge is missing half of it's head.
That is going to be tricky to remove and I'm not sure where I could source a replacement for this particular screw?

 

[gmorse]

Hi John,

I just noticed that the screw for the escape wheel bridge is missing half of it's head.

Looks bad on first sight, but at least you still have half the head still there. It would be a very different problem if the whole head was missing! You may be able to jog it round carefully with a screwdriver if it isn't in too tight, maybe even tapping it round very gently to get it started. Once it's moved a little you can grip it with small smooth-jawed pliers to turn it the rest of the way out.

Someone here may be able to suggest a source for a replacement; if I'm in this situation with much older watches I usually have to make a new one from scratch.

Regards,

Graham

 

[JohnGay]

A little poking around, and I found this link for bridge screws?

Bridge Screws (Pocketwatch) Assorted

Cousins UK for Bridge Screws (Pocketwatch) Assorted

www.cousinsuk.com

A pack of 100 seems a bit much, but it's not like I expect to be able to buy just one.

Thank you all again for the quick and helpful replies. I hope to have a real look at this watch this weekend, if I can get the screwdrivers I have to fit properly. At the very least I want to check the crown wheel screw is tight and see if there is any wear on the barrel bridge or the keyless works that might explain the winding problem I noticed.

I also ordered a rubber ball to see if that helps with my other watch I have. But that's another thread.

Cheers,

John Gay

 

[Dr. Jon]

You might try a half round rod fitting in the hole. It will work against the hole and may extract the screw. I usually make replacement screws, but I have a lathe, dies and a screw head tool.

 

[JohnGay]

You might try a half round rod fitting in the hole. It will work against the hole and may extract the screw. I usually make replacement screws, but I have a lathe, dies and a screw head tool.

This also sounds like an excellent idea.
If I can find a rod close enough to the size of this hole and then file a flat to carefully match the remaining screw head.

I'm not extremely handy with tools, though I do have a makerspace nearby that might be able to help if necessary. But I think just buying a set of ready-made screws is the more sensible option in my case.

Cheers,

John gay

 

[Dr. Jon]

You can also adjusts the height of the screw head if it is too thick. Yuo can cut it downand keep it decently flat with a emory borad you can but at a local drug store. teh also sell four part fingernail finishing blocks you can use to re-polish the head. It's nto a full black polish but it is not hard to do a nice job with these items.

 

[JohnGay]

Further to my screwdrivers:
Even though I have several screwdrivers of various widths, none of them seem to be thin enough to actually fit the slots in any of the screws in any of my watches?
So I am wondering if I could file the blades thinner to fit? I'm not ready to spend a large amount of money for screwdrivers I might only use a few times before realizing I'm not cut out for watch repair.

Cheers,

John Gay

 

[gmorse]

Hi John,

Even though I have several screwdrivers of various widths, none of them seem to be thin enough to actually fit the slots in any of the screws in any of my watches?
So I am wondering if I could file the blades thinner to fit?

Yes, that's quite a common practice, you should always make sure the screwdriver fits the slot properly before using it, especially on better quality watches. An abrasive stone or diamond plate is probably a better tool to use, although you might find that the blades are too hard to file, depending on their quality. A final polish with a very fine abrasive of some sort is worth doing, a rough screwdriver blade will tend to leave those marks on the screws.

Regards,

Graham

 

[JohnGay]

Since these are cheap screw drivers, I was able to file the edge thin enough to turn the screw holding the crown, but the crown would not come loose.
I was careful no to turn it too many turns, but the only result was that I could no longer adjust the time?
Then I tried to tighten that screw and found I was now only able to adjust the time but now wind the mainspring?
After several attempts to remove the crown, I eventually loosened it completely. Since I had passed this point of no return, I removed the barrel and crown wheels so that I could remove the barrel bridge to get a better look at why the crown would not come out?

This image shows the crown in it's extended position.
I have also removed a small spring that pressed against the tiny pin.
When I push the crown in, that pin extends. But when I pull the crown back out, the pin stays extended until I push it back in?
But nothing I do will release the crown. And without that, I cannot remove the movement from the case.
Can someone please help me with how to release the crown?

Cheers,

John Gay

 

[JohnGay]

I' not sure if my post wasn't clear, or if I need to provide more information?
Right now I cannot remove the crown, and that is preventing me from removing this movement from the case as well.
I do not understand what is keeping the crown from pulling out at this point.
When I was able to loosen the screw, I only turned it a quarter turn at a time. At some point, the crown no longer changed to time-setting mode. It only wound the barrel in either position?
Then I tried tightening it fully, which was more that another turn past where I started. And this changed the crown to only setting time, and not winding the barrel?
It seemed there was a point about 1 1/4 turn from tight where the crown worked normally. But I could not find a point where I could release the crown at all?
After deciding to try removing the barrel bridge to get a better look, although I know it's the wrong side, I did see there was a but of excess grease in the area of the crown pin and keyless works.
But since I cannot remove the movement from the case, I cannot really clean this area as the dial seems to be screwed in from the sides.

I was really hoping to get this movement out and get some practice with this movement.

Cheers,

John Gay

 

[eric the bully]

If there was a spring in the red circle, this is a negative set. As in American cases, the crown and stem remain attached to the case. Lift the crown and push the movement down to six o'clock to get it out of the case.
Regards enrico

 

[JohnGay]

There was a spring there.
I will try this again. I did try to remove the movement, but I didn't want to damage the crown pin.
But if that is how it's supposed to come out, I'll give it another try.

Thank you for your reply.

Cheers,

John Gay

 

[JohnGay]

I was able to get this movement out.
Thanks again for all the help.
And I was able to get most of it apart, except I could not loosen the dial screws.
Since this is just a practice movement, I ended up sacrificing the dial by accident. I thought it was stuck with rust, but turned out it was the porcelain cracking that I mistook from rust.
Eventually, I was able to disassemble the rest of the movement. There were some bits of rust here and there. Including the hands. I have cleaned it up as best as I could with Zippo fluid and cotton swabs. There is one gear from the dial side. The larger portion is brass, but the smaller potion seems to be rusted pretty bad?
But I have reached the limit of my cheap screwdrivers. Although I was able to get the plate of the yoke lever, I won't be able to get the cap jewels off the balance wheel pinions. Those screws are just too tiny. Even for my eyes. And I've tried several powers of loupes.
So I think I'll put this back together, oil the other jewels and see how well it runs.
I feel bad I destroyed the dial, but I just could not see into the dial screw holes no matter what I tried. and could not get the dial screws to turn. Even after cleaning.
But I didn't spend a lot on this watch. And it was for practice anyway.
Now I seriously doubt I'll be able to do much with the 10.5''' watch my wife has. Maybe just get new hands and crystal just to get it looking reasonable again.
Maybe I'll try my hand at wind-up clocks?