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Hubert Herr KW 75 help

Dan Richter

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Sep 8, 2021
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This is my first post on this forum. My entire career in the watch business was with watches but my question is about clocks.

I was given a Hubert Herr cuckoo clock for repair. The owner said someone had worked on it and it doesn't keep time and the music box doesn't work. This "someone" was certainly not a professional.

The movement is a KW75. I got most of it working but the cuckoo and the hands are not in sync. Does anyone have a picture of the dial side of the movement showing the correct relational positions of the snail wheel, hour cannon, rack and the cannon pinion (not sure if that's what you call it in a clock)?

I would really appreciate your help.

Thanks

Dan
 

Jim Hartog

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Jan 6, 2010
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Hello Dan,

Herr's have two hand nuts. The inner one holds the minute hand on the minute "tube". The outer one connects the minute hand to the minute arbor (the center post). The minute arbor has the cam that initiates the strike sequence.

Put the hour hand on. Put the minute hand on any which way. Put the minute nut on making sure that the back of the minute hand does not touch the hour tube. Put the outer nut on the minute arbor finger tight. Rotate the minute hand until the clock strikes. Loosen the outer nut and rotate the minute hand to the 12 or 6 o'clock position depending on what struck and re-tighten the outer nut. Rotate the hour hand to the correct position.

Basically, the clock tells you what time it is and you put the hands in that position. But, the hands have to be put on in any position to get the clock to tell you what time it is. Does that make sense. The outer nut connects the minute tube to the minute arbor in any position. In most clocks you will be off by quarters or halves, in a Herr you are off by varying degrees.

Jim
 
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Dan Richter

Registered User
Sep 8, 2021
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75
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Hello Dan,

Herr's have two hand nuts. The inner one holds the minute hand on the minute "tube". The outer one connects the minute hand to the minute arbor (the center post). The minute arbor has the cam that initiates the strike sequence.

Put the hour hand on. Put the minute hand on any which way. Put the minute nut on making sure that the back of the minute hand does not touch the hour tube. Put the outer nut on the minute arbor finger tight. Rotate the minute hand until the clock strikes. Loosen the outer nut and rotate the minute hand to the 12 or 6 o'clock position depending on what struck and re-tighten the outer nut. Rotate the hour hand to the correct position.

Basically, the clock tells you what time it is and you put the hands in that position. But, the hands have to be put on in any position to get the clock to tell you what time it is. Does that make sense. The outer nut connects the minute tube to the minute arbor in any position. In most clocks you will be off by quarters or halves, in a Herr you are off by varying degrees.

Jim
Thank you, Jim.

Just to make sure I understand you, when I reassemble the cannon pinion, rack, intermediate wheel and hour cannon their relative position to each other and the snail is unimportant. Just set the hands and turn them until the cuckoo and and gong sound then reset the hands.

Is that right?
 

shutterbug

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Pretty much. Turn it until it strikes and set the hands to match the strike. I'm assuming it would be similar on a watch with an alarm function. You'd set the alarm hand to match the alarm time ;)
 

Dan Richter

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Sep 8, 2021
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Thank you. I have reassembled the hand setting side and it appears to work correctly.

Unfortunately, that lead me to another problem. You can see in the attached picture the dirty, rust and corrosion I had to deal with on this movement. The picture shows the cuckoo lever. Can I assume that it didn't leave the factory with a giant glob of electical solder to hold the lever in place? It appears that this piece snapped off and somebody "fixed" it by soldering it on. Unless parts are available, or someone has a brilliant fix, I think I am going to reassemble this clock and return it. It will keep time and the music box now works.

I appreciate everyone's help, but I should have stayed retired and just said NO.

Thanks
Dan

IMG_0388.jpg
 

shutterbug

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Yeah, nasty solder job. The proper fix is not too hard though. Remove the solder, find the original hole, punch out (or drill if necessary) the old broken off part. Then you can probably still use what is left of the hammer arm. Insert it through the hole, flair out the end with a hammer, and tap it back into the hole. That will be a nice tight fit. Or, ..... leave it alone and run like crazy! :D
 

Dan Richter

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Sep 8, 2021
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Thanks, Shutterbug. I have finished cleaning off the solder and can see the broken piece. I will punch it out. The way he curled the remaining piece makes me doubt that I can straighten it without it breaking. I drop of epoxy should hold what is left in place.

Thanks, again, for your help.
Dan
 

shutterbug

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You could make a whole new piece. It's just a piece of brass/steel wire usually.
 

Dan Richter

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Sep 8, 2021
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Shutterbug, following your advice, I removed the assembly to make new pieces. I am now confronted with a few new problems. As you saw in my previous picture, the last person who worked on this did a pretty poor job of trying to fix the cuckoo lever. This clock has a music box. I noticed that chain from the music box interferes with the cuckoo arm, if I use the positioning he used when he bent these parts.

Attached are picture of the cuckoo stop, the cuckoo lever and the wire that was twisted around. I made a new ring for the cuckoo lever since the original was cracked and, likely, would not have taken another bend. I have not fixed its position since I am not sure where that is.

After removing the solder, I cannot find any hole that the wire may have passed through. Instead there is a poorly defined slot cut into the shaft.

Do you know how the factory attached the wire to the shaft and how far from the end?

I am sorry to have to contact you about this but I have no one else who might know. I searched for photos but there are none. The YouTube videos about repairing this clock are just a talking tour with no usefully information or images.

Thanks for whatever help you can provide.
Dan

IMG_0414.JPG IMG_0415.JPG IMG_0421.JPG
 

shutterbug

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I would sure think there'd be a hole. You might have to make one, but it might weaken the arbor if there's already one there. Try some emery paper to smooth out the roughness and see if a hole appears. Probably hard to see if it has a piece of wire in it.
 

Dan Richter

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Sep 8, 2021
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I would sure think there'd be a hole. You might have to make one, but it might weaken the arbor if there's already one there. Try some emery paper to smooth out the roughness and see if a hole appears. Probably hard to see if it has a piece of wire in it.
 

Dan Richter

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Sep 8, 2021
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Yes, you would want to think that, but no.
I heated the shaft a little bit with a torch and blew the solder off with compressed air. No hole; but there were 2 notches cut in the shaft, one was flat on one side while the other was a “V” with file marks. Since the tail of the wire is straight then curved, I’ll guess the the wire was formed around the shaft using the flat notch. No idea why the last person to “fix” this clock filed a “V” and solder it together. Using the original groove, I bent the wire as tightly as possible and used a dab of epoxy to hold it in place. This position clears the music box chain, so I think this is the right position.

I tested the clock and it keeps time very well. Next I’ll add the cuckoo and music box. Hopefully I can get rid of this thing in a couple of day.

Thanks for your suggestions and support.
 

Dan Richter

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Sep 8, 2021
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Sorry, but I am back with, what I hope, is the last issue with this clock.

The clock is together, keeping time and the cuckoo works correctly. What doesn't work correctly is the music box. The music box functions fine until I put it in the clock. Just before the hour, a lever moves to release the music box to play. The problem is that it keeps playing until the hands move enough to trigger the cuckoo or the weight hits the floor. I have tried adjusting the lever but this results in it either not playing or plaing constantly.

How do I get it to only play once?

Thanks
 

JimmyOz

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I am not sure of the music setup however I think you need to adjust the the wire that hits the fan so the fan is stopped when the lever leaves the hole in the barrel. By the sounds of it it is not doing this, thus the music starts when going into warning.
 

Dan Richter

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Sep 8, 2021
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I am not sure of the music setup however I think you need to adjust the the wire that hits the fan so the fan is stopped when the lever leaves the hole in the barrel. By the sounds of it it is not doing this, thus the music starts when going into warning.
 

Dan Richter

Registered User
Sep 8, 2021
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That might have been my next question, “what is the wire supposed to do?” I have spent a lot of time correcting the problems that someone created in this clock. The wire was just sticking straight up. I noticed that it moves in parallel with the lever that releases the music box but did not notice whether it moved back independently. Tomorrow I will try to bend it to stop the governor.

Thanks for your help.
 

Dan Richter

Registered User
Sep 8, 2021
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I believe I have solved the problem. The wire does move with the release lever. I found that when the lever releases the lock on the music box, the wire blocks the governor until the cuckoo is finished. At that point the lever and wire move back and the govenor is released, the music box plays until it is again locked.

Thank you all for your help with this clock.
 

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