Howard pocket watch with case

Donna Pipr

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Hi, I recently discovered a family heirloom while packing to move. It is a Howard pocket watch however it doesn't quite fit in it's box. Also on the enclosed contract attached to the box, numbers have been changed. An example is the original movement number 1066809 has the number 110?162 and the case number originally 200490 now reads 200721 number of jewels originally 21 now reads 23. Despite reading "how to open a watch" I will need an expert. It is a beautiful pocket watch but with number discrepancies, would it lessen it's value?

howard contract.jpg , watch.jpg
 
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musicguy

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Welcome to the NAWCC forum,

This is an American watch
Moving to the American Pocket Watch forum


Rob
 

Steven Thornberry

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richiec

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What is the serial number of your watch? open the case back and you can read it off of the movement. Obviously, the watch did not come in that box, someone ruined the provenance by changing the numbers but these cards have been reproduced and sold to make it appear that the original movement came in that box. If you can, open the back of the watch and take some photos of the movement for us, thanks.
 

musicguy

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It is a very nice heirloom, I agree with richiec post some photograhs of the
inside of your watch the movement(works)


Rob
 

Donna Pipr

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What is the serial number of your watch? open the case back and you can read it off of the movement. Obviously, the watch did not come in that box, someone ruined the provenance by changing the numbers but these cards have been reproduced and sold to make it appear that the original movement came in that box. If you can, open the back of the watch and take some photos of the movement for us, thanks.
I recently came across this watch and I am not quite sure how to open it. I am open to suggestions.
 

Donna Pipr

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I am having no luck opening it and I am open to suggestions. I have included 2 more pics if anyone can tell me how to open. Thanks

back watch.jpg front watch.jpg
 
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Donna Pipr

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It seems that a previous owner has put this watch into a box that originally came with a different watch and changed the numbers accordingly. Is the new number 1103162, which is a larger watch (16s) than the one having SN 1066809 (12s)? Compare.
E. Howard Watch Co. (Keystone) Pocket Watch Information: Serial Number 1066809 (Grade Series 8)
E. Howard Watch Co. (Keystone) Pocket Watch Information: Serial Number 1103162 (Grade Series 0)
It very well could be the #3 where I inserted a ?
 

musicguy

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Donna Pipr

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Thank you Rob, I got it opened, the back was a screw off here is a pic.
What is the serial number of your watch? open the case back and you can read it off of the movement. Obviously, the watch did not come in that box, someone ruined the provenance by changing the numbers but these cards have been reproduced and sold to make it appear that the original movement came in that box. If you can, open the back of the watch and take some photos of the movement for us, thanks.
properinternal.jpg
 
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Donna Pipr

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I am hoping all who commented and advised me how to open my Howard pocket watch, are able to see the picture. Unfortunately not the best quality picture as I used a very old ipad. I would love to hear some feedback and it appears the changes to the contract are true to this piece, despite the wrong box.

properinternal.jpg
 

Donna Pipr

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Upon removing back plate here is the information I recorded
-1103162
-23 Jewels
-E Howard Watch Co. Boston USA
-Arrow with a cross
-Special five positions temperature
On the back of the back plate
-Derby rolled plate M W C Co.
-Case made in Canada
-4039333
Any feedback would be helpful Thanks, Donna
 

Kent

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Hi Donna:

Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

To add to the good information posted by the others:

Please excuse me if I repeat some of what you already know, it's easier for me this way. Checking the references listed in the E. Howard Watch Co. Encyclopedia article (and looking at your pictures), Howard movement serial number 1,103,162 can be seen to be
a 16-size,
Series 0 grade,
Adjusted to Temperature, Five Positions and Isochronism,
either pendant- or lever-set, please let us know,
open-face movement,
having 23 jewels,
and a Whipsping Patent Regulator.
The movement is fitted with a double-sunk, Arabic dial.
It was built in about 1910-1916, thereabouts. This was a high grade movement of which over 6,000 of this variation were made.

You can see a catalog description of the Series 0 grade, along with a picture and where it fits in Howard's line of higher jeweeled 16-size movements, on the 1911 catalog page 44 (below).

Your Watch Case is rolled gold plate and was made by a successor to the Montreal Watch Case Co. This is a replacement case, all E. Howard Watch Co.-made and signed watchs were sold in Howard-signed cases (even in Canada).

If lever-set, this watch is a railroad watch, one that was widely accepted into railroad time service at the time it was built.

Unless you know that it has been properly cleaned and oiled within the last few years, you should have the watch serviced before running it very much. It may be helpful for you to read the Encyclopedia article on Watch Service and its related links, especially the one to the message board thread on the subject. The Encyclopedia article on Choosing a Pocket Watch Repair Person may be useful as well.

Having gathered and printed out information about a family watch, it is a wise idea to write out as much as you know about the family member to whom the watch originally belonged - or as far back as you can go, including (and clearly identifying) what you can guess. Then, add the names and relationships of the family members who passed it down to the current holder. Make up a booklet with this and all of the watch information and try to keep it with the watch. You might even include a CD or, better yet, a USB thumb drive with copies of the pictures or information, in addition to the printouts. Even though they may not be readable 100 years from now, some more recent descendent may transfer the files to the then current format and media. This way, the watch has real family heritage instead of it just being an old family watch, the identity and relationship of the original owner having been lost in the distant past.

Unfortunately, many of the links in our Encyclopedia articles were disrupted when we changed to the current version of our Message Board and its been a long process getting them all reinstated. So, if you come across a broken link and want to see what it led to, just let us know and we'll try and post it.

Please feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear to you.

Good luck,

1911_Howard_16S_Bridge.jpg 1911_Howard_RR_Watches.jpg
 

Kent

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there looks to be some serious damage to the winding
wheels,
LloydB:

Sre you sure about that? I looks like reflections to me.
 

gmorse

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Hi Lloyd,

The ratchet wheel could be reflections, hard to tell on the blurred picture, but the transmission wheel does look somewhat lacking in teeth on the side nearest the centre bridge.

Regards,

Graham
 

Kent

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Graham, et.al.:

I'm sure Donna can tell us, or hopefully post a better lighted picture, once she comes back and sees our confusion. Until she does, I downloaded the second picture and blew it up a bit.

Having done that, I've convinced myself that I can see the left-most two "missing" crown wheel (Donna: The smaller of the two winding wheels) teeth silhouetted on the gold of the center wheel.
 

gmorse

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Hi Kent,

Having done that, I've convinced myself that I can see the left-most two "missing" crown wheel (Donna: The smaller of the two winding wheels) teeth silhouetted on the gold of the center wheel.
I really hope you're right, but in the sharpened picture below, the teeth which are definitely present, (red), look distinctly different from the area (blue) where they appear to be missing.

properinternal_edit.jpg

Regards,

Graham
 

D.th.munroe

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Also to the left of Graham's red arrow right above the word Boston, looks like both wheels are missing several teeth. Edit: Looking at the original picture that may be a reflection
 

musicguy

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Donna Pipr can you please post another photograph of the movement?
If you could post a clearer photograph it would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
Rob
 

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