$ Howard Pocket Watch 14k-585 Fine - 23 Jewels - Serial No 1158701

leealp1

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I have a Howard Pocket Watch 14k-585 Fine - 23 Jewels - Stem Wind - Serial No 1158701

It is in perfect working order and very good condition.

I have been looking for a similar watch, I.e 23 Jewels, so I can try and put a value to it.

Is this a rare Howard Pocket Watch?

See photos below.

Thanks

Lee

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60MinuteMan

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Thats a Keystone-Howard Series 0, and a nice example having a 14K case I might add. (some condition issues with the dial...)
Here is a link to the DB entry for it: E. Howard Watch Co. (Keystone) Pocket Watch: Serial Number 1158701 (Grade Series 0)

Not really rare, but a high-end watch for the time, and some serial number are more elusive.
I'm sure others will add more info for you.
Here is an example of my series 0 (23J) in the meantime.

s-l1600 (1).jpg s-l1600 (6).jpg s-l1600 (8).jpg s-l1600.jpg
 
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musicguy

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have been looking for a similar watch, I.e 23 Jewels, so I can try and put a value to it.
I have added the value tag to your thread.


Rob
 

Dave Coatsworth

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I sold a matching pair of these a couple of years ago. One had the jeweled barrel and one had the jeweled banking pins. They were both in excellent condition (no hairlines on the dial, for example). If I remember right, I got about $3-400 over the gold value for each. I have noticed Keystone Howards in general coming down a bit in price since then, but the Series 0 is a desirable watch.
 

leealp1

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Thats a Keystone-Howard Series 0, and a nice example having a 14K case I might add. (some condition issues with the dial...)
Here is a link to the DB entry for it: E. Howard Watch Co. (Keystone) Pocket Watch: Serial Number 1158701 (Grade Series 0)

Not really rare, but a high-end watch for the time, and some serial number are more elusive.
I'm sure others will add more info for you.
Here is an example of my series 0 (23J) in the meantime.

View attachment 640791 View attachment 640792 View attachment 640793 View attachment 640794
Hi
Thanks for the info.
Yours is very nice too, I note you have all the papers, and box, the box I have is not the original, and I dont have papers.

Thanks for you feed back.

Thanks

Lee
 

PatH

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Hi Rob

I cannot seem to find the value tag you added to my thread.

Thanks

Lee
Hi, Lee.

I'm not sure if it's visible to you as the original poster, but I see the value tag (dollar sign with a green background) before the title.

Nice watch!!

Pat
 

leealp1

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Hi Pat

Hi, Lee.

I'm not sure if it's visible to you as the original poster, but I see the value tag (dollar sign with a green background) before the title.

Nice watch!!

Pat
I see it, I have clicked on it, but nothing has happened.

I actually have a guy ( right now waiting for me to give him a price ) I had said in emails I was waiting for offers, he has said he does not want to get into a " Dutch Auction " he wants me to give him a price for the Howard and Jules Jergensen 18K Gold I have, and I dont know what to quote him, I know we can talk about values on here, so I am a little stuck.
 

PatH

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The rules have changed, and values can be discussed. The value tag will let others know that you are looking for a value. It looks like Dave provided a value based on what his sold for, and perhaps others will also be able to provide insight. Good luck!
 

leealp1

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The rules have changed, and values can be discussed. The value tag will let others know that you are looking for a value. It looks like Dave provided a value based on what his sold for, and perhaps others will also be able to provide insight. Good luck!
I see Dave has put $3-400 over the Gold Value,, how much would that actually be?
 

SpringDriven

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Unfortunately you would have to know the weight of the gold fairly precisely to know the current value of your watches. Since the weight is unknown, it is difficult to offer a fair value.

That means removing the movement, crystal and crown and sleeve to ensure you are not shorted on gold value, you can approximate the weight of the gold case. I suggest only having a professional do this or value can be hurt.

Sharp buyers have a fair idea I assume of what a general glass crystal, movement, crown weighs. But the buyer and seller need to know a weight and agree on that, and then add as suggested the $300 to $400 in value over gold cost for the complete watch and agree. The gold makes the value complicated.

For example I made an offer on a Waltham 1872 that was cased in a 14kt open face case. I had available to weight a 72 movement, crown and crystal as an approximate weight, the seller had a total weight of the watch he was selling. We could then come to a gold price agreement for the case, and then decide a fair price for the watch complete.

I hope this helps.
 
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leealp1

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Unfortunately you would have to know the weight of the gold fairly precisely to know the current value of your watches. Since the weight is unknown, it is difficult to offer a fair value.

That means removing the movement, crystal and crown and sleeve to ensure you are not shorted on gold value, you can approximate the weight of the gold case. I suggest only having a professional do this or value can be hurt.

Sharp buyers have a fair idea I assume of what a general glass crystal, movement, crown weighs. But the buyer and seller need to know a weight and agree on that, and then add as suggested the $300 to $400 in value over gold cost for the complete watch and agree. The gold makes the value complicated.

For example I made an offer on a Waltham 1872 that was cased in a 14kt open face case. I had available to weight a 72 movement, crown and crystal as an approximate weight, the seller had a total weight of the watch he was selling. We could then come to a gold price agreement for the case, and then decide a fair price for the watch complete.

I hope this helps.
Hi

Thanks for the information.

I think my buyer just wants me to jump a price on the actual watches, I am new to all this.

I just dont know what price to tell him for the Howard and Jules Jurgensen I have. I think $1,700 for Howard will be OK, not sure about about the Jules, looking on some Auction Websites, it could be between $3,000 and $8,000.

Can you have a look at my Jules thread and give me an idea please. see thread below.
https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/jules-jergensen-pocket-watch-18k-gold.177436/
 

SpringDriven

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I apologize, but I have no idea on the value of a Jules Jurgensen watch. I wish I could be more helpful.

Perhaps contact an auction house and pay for an appraisal?
 

leealp1

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I apologize, but I have no idea on the value of a Jules Jurgensen watch. I wish I could be more helpful.

Perhaps contact an auction house and pay for an appraisal?
Thats OK, No problem.

Thanks very much for your help.

Thanks

Lee
 

Jerry Treiman

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Keystone indicated relative weight of some of their solid gold Howard cases with the letters “H” or “X” (Heavy or eXtra heavy) -- yours has an “H” so it is just “Heavy” (whatever that indicates). I have an open-face Heavy case from a few years earlier that weighs about 40 grams but I do not know if they were consistent in their case weights from year to year.
 
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leealp1

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Keystone indicated relative weight of some of their solid gold Howard cases with the letters “H” or “X” (Heavy or eXtra heavy) -- yours has an “H” so it is just “Heavy” (whatever that indicates). I have an open-face Heavy case from a few years earlier that weighs about 40 grams but I do not know if they were consistent in their case weights from year to year.
Hi Jerry

My Howard has a weight of 86 g
 

Jerry Treiman

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... My Howard has a weight of 86 g
40 grams was just my estimated weight of the case alone, having removed the movement and subtracting approximate weight of crystal, stem, sleeve and crown. The total weight of my watch was about 96 grams. My movement is not a bridge model so there may be more metal in my movement causing the higher total weight. (or maybe my "H" case was made with a little more gold in 1905).

By the way ... in my opinion all of this talk about case weight and gold value is just a starting point. If I sold you an ounce of 14K gold how much more would it cost to turn that lump of gold into a case? I think value has to be added to a case in consideration of the craft, and the fact that hardly anyone can even make a gold case anymore. The supply is rapidly shrinking and the melting of functional gold cases for scrap value is, IMHO, a crying shame.
 
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leealp1

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40 grams was just my estimated weight of the case alone, having removed the movement and subtracting approximate weight of crystal, stem, sleeve and crown. The total weight of my watch was about 96 grams. My movement is not a bridge model so there may be more metal in my movement causing the higher total weight. (or maybe my "H" case was made with a little more gold in 1905).
Hi Jerry
OK Thanks, well I have sent him the price I think is appropriate for the Howard and the Jules Jurgensen, see what he comes back with.
Thanks

Lee
 

Ethan Lipsig

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Leealp 1, you wrote "I just don't know what price to tell him for the Howard and Jules Jurgensen I have. I think $1,700 for Howard will be OK, not sure about about the Jules, looking on some Auction Websites, it could be between $3,000 and $8,000."

I will leave sale tactics to you, but your value assessments look high to me. I wrote you earlier that recent Jones Horan sales showed that a good solid gold Howard Series 0 sells for around $1600 these days based on the Jones Horan sales. Those examples seem to be better than your watch judging from a very quick and superficial review. So $1700 seems too high for the Howard.

It likely would be harder to find comps for your Jurgensen, but you should try the Jones Horan archives to see what you can find. Older time-only lever movement Jurgensens probably sell around the low end of your $3-8 range -- I haven't checked. Newer JJ's (starting in the mid 1880s) generally are not as highly valued because JJ became a less elite firm over the years, eventually become perhaps the cheapest brand of solid gold wristwatches sold in the US. Your JJ is worth net scrap value plus something for the movement, perhaps more than $3-400, perhaps not. Your JJ appears to be in good condition, but the dial is aged, which detracts from value, and it looks like its a 12-size watch, again which likely would reduces its value.
 
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SpringDriven

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As for me being the only one discussing gold value in this thread, I was trying to be as helpful with value as possible. I was not implying scrapping of any kind.

I believe everyone would like to sell something and not sell it for less than the gold value when discussing solid gold. That is like giving away money, right?

P.S. The one on JH that sold for $1600 in January was an Xtra Heavy hunting case. More gold in that watch.
 

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