Howard Miller Thomas Tompian movement replacement

dairborn

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Nov 3, 2012
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So unfortunately I don't have the clock in front of me at the moment as it is at the repair shop. So my clock repairmen says that this particular movement in this clock is just known to be troublesome (won't keep time). The repair cost just isn't worth it in his opinion because of the known issues with the movement, and he said that a replacement would be a better option. Ok great, but he said the movement would be around $500 to order and replace. Hmmm, so that got me thinking? Is this something I could do if I could find a replacement movement myself? I certainly am capable of taking an old movement out and replacing it with at new one (at least I think). I am just wondering if there are any other triple chime movements that would work for this particular clock and if anyone out there has any experience with it or an opinion IMG_0532.jpg they would like to share. I think the movement in it is a Kieninger and he said he could replace it with a Hermle one. If that sounds right let me know if there are any options from you experts. Thanks!
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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fair,

Not exactly right ... Post a photo of the movement. That will help.

Also, do you know exactly how old your clock is?

Willie X
 

Salsagev

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You can oil these types of movements and get the most time out of these movements.
 

shutterbug

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Yes, pics of at least the back and any letters/numbers found there.
 

Dick Feldman

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My guess would be that is one of those Kieninger balance movements with the plastic parts in the balance assembly. Those proved to be very unreliable because it simply was a poor design.
Mark Butterworth has stated numerous times that there is a new generation replacement for those balance assemblies with bulletproof plastic parts. Like the OP’s clock repairman, I have declined on those new style balances. I have been burned on one clock and I doubt they will get me to go back for a second dose from the same people.
Conversion to a Hermle movement may be possible but the adaptations may be extensive. Any conversion may involve re mount of the new movement and replacement of the dial so that the winding holes line up.
In the clock world, the finished products of switched movements are called marriages.
In my world, I call them divorces.
I believe the repairman won’t make much money, if any with that conversion.
The movement change may be a bad investment.
JMHO
Dick
 
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chimeclockfan

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Whoever said that all German movements were entirely prototyped and tested before production clearly has no experience in the field of engineering on a mass-production timeline. The German companies got desperate to meet American quota during the 1970's onward and you had many movements which simply weren't well designed. They appear more often as scrap parts instead of complete clocks.

Marriages and divorces are more common among modern clocks than some would realize.
It's up to you what you want to go through with and what you think will be most worthwhile in the end.
Personally, I would avoid any movement that has design problems beyond repair.
 

Salsagev

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Like I said, scrape the black gunk out and re oil it and get a another year or two out the movement again.
 

dairborn

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My guess would be that is one of those Kieninger balance movements with the plastic parts in the balance assembly. Those proved to be very unreliable because it simply was a poor design.
Mark Butterworth has stated numerous times that there is a new generation replacement for those balance assemblies with bulletproof plastic parts. Like the OP’s clock repairman, I have declined on those new style balances. I have been burned on one clock and I doubt they will get me to go back for a second dose from the same people.
Conversion to a Hermle movement may be possible but the adaptations may be extensive. Any conversion may involve re mount of the new movement and replacement of the dial so that the winding holes line up.
In the clock world, the finished products of switched movements are called marriages.
In my world, I call them divorces.
I believe the repairman won’t make much money, if any with that conversion.
The movement change may be a bad investment.
JMHO
Dick
I was told the 1050-020 is the Hermle movement, but your saying they may not line up?
 

chimeclockfan

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If your movement looks like this then it is the Hermle 1050-020 series.

1050 profile.jpg
 

Willie X

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It has a Kieninger movement. Nobody will know which one until the OP retrieves it from the repair shop. Willie X
 

dairborn

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I know the one on mine is a Kieninger, it has that nylon wheel that was discussed above. My ideas are to replace the escapement, or I'd like to put a Hermle movement on in its place, but now I am hesitant about that because I don't know if the holes will line up. Anyone else comment on the alignment?
 

Willie X

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Dair,

If you are replacing a Kieninger AEL01 with a Hermle 340-020, the center shaft will be a little high and a little long. The movement mounts are completely different. The center winding hole will have to be elongated a bit and the chime shut-off lever is on the opposite side.

Note, there were quite a few different Kieninger wind-up chime movements used over not that many years. Each one will present a certain set of problems when you try for a Hermle swap. No direct swaps that I am aware of.

Willie X
 

Willie X

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The OP hasn't come back yet and didn't say when the clock was purcased ...
Willie X
 

Salsagev

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I see.

I think it is a good idea to just scrape oil and re oil to get the most out of the movement if they are going to replace it. This works unless something is physically broken.
 

dairborn

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The movement is a Kieninger SEW01. Someone mentioned they though the numbers were an 2004 movement. my question, is this something I could swap out with a 1050-020 movement? IMG_0619.jpg
 

chimeclockfan

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One of Kieninger's weird 'Hermle Copycat' movements made in the later years.
Despite the close similarities with a Hermle 1050-020, I make no guarantee the specs are identical.
So the answer is 'No' you can't swap it out with a Hermle without having to make modifications.
 

Willie X

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No, there will be differences. Not saying it can't be done. It probably won't be as easy as you may think.

Even swapping 'like for like' usually has a few details that have to be worked out.

If the chime is still good (not slow), I would simply oil it and replace the platform escapement.

Time-keeping is not a problem with these clocks, until the little platform starts to wear out, usually at around 12 to 15 years.

Willie X
 

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