Howard IV Keywind

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by shovelhead, Aug 11, 2018.

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  1. shovelhead

    shovelhead Registered User
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    Hope you all like these.
     
  2. shovelhead

    shovelhead Registered User
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    Second try.
     
  3. shovelhead

    shovelhead Registered User
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  4. shovelhead

    shovelhead Registered User
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  5. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Very nice nickel gold hunter cased Howard IV. Looks like a gorgeous case
    by Courvoisier Wicox MFG. Co., a known E Howard case maker. Congrats on
    this find!

    The Howard experts should note the umbrella hands on this key wind, a battle
    I struggled with 15 years ago. I bring this up, as these umbrellas on this key wind
    appear original to the watch.

    Nice watch shovelhead!!

    Keith R...
     
  6. shovelhead

    shovelhead Registered User
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    Man it took me awhile to figure how to post pic. My wife had done it for me in the past. She is gone know. I think I've got it figured out so I will be posting pic. of my watches. Started collecting in the 90's. Keith you should like this watch! It runs well, one of my favorites.
     
  7. Clint Geller

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    Very nice watch. Thanks for posting. I love Howard Nickel KW's. As I recall, in my book, I estimated the total production of N Size Model 1871 ("Series IV") nickel Keywind movements at 410, based on the 41 ten-lots I found in the factory records that either are known to contain, or which have listed prices indicating that they contain nickel keywind movements.

    As for umbrella versus spade hands, I always assumed that the date of completion determined this far more than the winding/setting arrangement. By S/N 40,000, I would absolutely expect to see umbrella style hands.
     
  8. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    That helps clear me up Clint on the IV's, I have KWKS at early at 32xxx spade and one at 39xxx umbrella.
    On III's I'm all over the map, between spades and umbrellas.

    Thanks Clint

    Keith R...
     
  9. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The serial numbers were blocked out by models, so you would expect to see overlap where Series III below 30,000 down to 3,000 were a block and the later ones would have been finished after the earlier Series IV.
     
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  10. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #10 Keith R..., Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
    Thanks Tom, sn# 5477.

    2nd generation case, but serviced and keeping perfect time.

    Keith R...

    100_2672 (800x600) - Copy.jpg 100_2685 (800x600).jpg 5477 (500x375).jpg 103_8191 (800x600).jpg
     
  11. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I would not be surprised to see umbrella hands on numbers above 20,000 but I do not have the ledgers available to check. For one as early as yours, umbrella hands would be strange and evidence of later replacement.
     
  12. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #12 Keith R..., Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
    Thanks Tom, I have another series III with spades I can get Rob to switch, if I have them
    serviced together. That serial number is #18062.

    Thanks shovelhead for posting about key wind Howard's and allowing me to settle this.

    Keith R...

    100_2292 (800x600).jpg 103_8192 (800x600).jpg
     
  13. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I probably should have prefaced my remarks by "I know next to nothing about early Howard watches."

    You should get an opinion from Clint or another of the Howard experts.
     
  14. Keith R...

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    #14 Keith R..., Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
    Thanks Tom, Clint addressed the series IV's while on here for shovelhead. Had I asked
    about the series III's, he would know the SN# split between Spades and Umbrellas. I think
    what you have answered clears it for me and I believe Clint would agree.

    I have another III movement #8041 and also a Mershon III #15046. The dial on #15046
    belongs on the first watch #8041. So I think the Mershon #15046 & #5477 need spade
    hands.

    Both shown and watches in post#12, serviced by Rob Carter. Note, movements shown in
    post #14, came from a scrapper who sold them on the cheap. I just think they deserve to
    run.

    Keith R...

    103_0090 (800x600) - Copy.jpg 103_9723 (800x600).jpg
     
  15. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    Not an expert on a Howard hand sets either... I have 3 earlier Watches, #’s 3859, 3980, 23567...They all have the Polished Tips on the spades... Thought that was a Howard’s Standard as far as space hands went ??

    8956C37B-A64A-4F83-988D-58CC82CEC10F.jpeg E913AEDF-0152-480F-A28C-1A0CEF83BBFF.jpeg FFE02ECF-57B8-4BE7-A83A-21D977034FA9.jpeg
     
  16. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    John P., I'm sure it was a rookie moment when I was trying to go after Series III key winds.
    I accept your position that all III's would have polished spades. I do have one original III coin,
    shown in post #12, with appropriate spade hands. Thanks for the help, (shortly after the early
    III attempts, I changed key wind makers).

    So that would leave us with the series IV key winds and recognizing Clint's position, the sn#
    40,000 range umbrellas would be appropriate. Note the OP's most gorgeous gold IV key wind,
    has the appropriate umbrellas, as does my silver original key wind IV 39XXX. My early key wind
    IV 31xxx has polished spade hands that would be appropriate by Clint's statement also.

    Keith R...

    103_6451 (800x600).jpg 103_6557 (800x600).jpg
     
  17. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Oops, mine are just spade, not polished tips.

    Keith R...
     

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