How to set out a verge escapement for an English bracket clock

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by NigelW, Mar 29, 2019.

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  1. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

    Jan 2, 2015
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    I would appreciate any guidance on how to set out a verge escapement for an English bracket clock. My copy of Gazeley, which is normally good on these things, isn't very helpful.
     
  2. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Nigel, please explain in more detail what you need help with. Also, please include photos.
     
  3. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    Peter Hageman has done a successful reconversion (PHageman) You might want to look up his thread and speak to him. He also casts his own yellow brass blocks and does his own engraving!
     
  4. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    #4 D.th.munroe, Mar 29, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
    I don't know if it would help, I'm not sure how much changed in 50 or 60 years, but I have an un-converted (original) later 1700s verge I could take pictures or measurements. I guess measurements might not help though.
    Dan.
     
  5. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

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    My clock would originally have had two verges: one for the going train and another for the alarm. Both are missing but I am close to deriving their likely diameter and tooth count. I am currently modelling the missing parts in a CAD programme (progress is being documented here: 1710 Etherington Table clock with lots of bits missing ) but to finish the design I need to lay out the pallets in relation to the crown wheel and make sure I have the geometry right. My understanding is that crown wheels in these types of clocks did not have undercut teeth but I am not sure either of the shape of the curve on the crown wheel nor the pallet length and the distance of its arbor from the top of the crown wheel teeth.
     
  6. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    I do have books on this somewhere. I think shorter pendulum clocks a rake or undercut on the teeth isn't necessary. And the curve is irrelevant as long as the pallet flags dont hit them after the drop off. usually the pallet angles for english brakets was between 90 and 110 degrees. The height of the pallet arbor from the crown and length of the pallets is a bit harder though, cad may help, depending on the tooth counts and the wanted arc of the pendulum. I know the first pallet should just escape as the point of the opposite tooth touches the opposite pallet.
     
  7. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    John Plews covers this subject well. His book is big on making parts for old English clocks. Willie X
     
  8. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

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    I am not familiar with this book and an author search on www.bookfinder.com yielded no horological titles for John Plews, or anyone with that surname. Is it very rare, or am I looking in the wrong place?
     
  9. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Nigel,

    I just sent you a conversation. I recall an AHS lecture some years ago by Roger Still, (a tutor at West Dean and senior restorer at Carter Marsh in Winchester, who restored the Scott-Cumberland Tompion), who maintained, if I remember correctly, that the ideal flag angle for English verge table clocks was in the region of 70º to 80º, and not the commonly accepted but higher range, (which is perfectly valid in watches).

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  10. wow

    wow Registered User
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  11. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    Ah sorry for the bad info. I have wondered about the angles and that, authors have differing theories, those just came from Laurie Penman's Practical Clock Escapments
    I think I'd trust Roger Still more though.
     
  12. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

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    I found a copy of Penman's book in my clock club's library. It is very helpful but he does not give much in the way of detailed data on specific clocks and their pallet angles. I think it gives me enough to go on for the time being however.
     
  13. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Nigel,

    The Plewes book is a great book to have in your library but it does NOT cover crown wheel escapements. His book is dedicated to pendulum clocks only, from 1700 to 1940. Published by Sterling Publishing Co. Inc. New York 1984,

    Penman has about 38 pages dedicated to the subject and is the best source of info I have in my library.

    Sorry for the mixup. Willie
     
  14. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    In Penman's "The Clock Repairer's Handbook" he has 1 more sentence on the angles of the verges.
    "Verges made before the middle of the 18th century have a wide angle between the two impulse faces of around 110 degrees; more recent verges often have a smaller angle of between 60 and 80 degrees."
     
  15. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    The Plewes book title is, 'Repairing and Restoring Pendulum Clocks'. Willie X
     
  16. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    This is a pendulum clock, in the first form of pendulum clock. Does he just start at anchor?
     
  17. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    Seems odd he would exclude the crown wheel.
    This made me curious for myself about the angles of the one I have.
    It's in pretty bad shape and later but still. Pretty sure thats a french crutch on a London clock. lol
    The backs of the flags on this are 110 degrees but the working face is 80 degrees.

    15547260218694749728300999707808.jpg
     
  18. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    Somewhere I have some notes about the geometry of the verge setup. Will see if I can find them.

    Do you have access to an example to follow? I might be able to photo and measure one which is a similar age if that is required.

    Cheers
     

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