how to set gut or cord on winding drum properly for a vienna regulator.

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by klokwiz, Apr 14, 2014.

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  1. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    Hi,

    during my cleaning of my new regulator, I'm replacing the old gut with new. My question is how much gut should be wound on the drum when weight is bottomed out in case. The gut is knotted and held in the drum under an end cap. I didn't think it should hang directly from the hole, but maybe it should. My concern is that if there is too much gut left on drum it will "spool" and become tangled if weight is lifted before winding. should the weight hang from gut when unwound or should it come to rest in bottom of case?

    Joe.
     

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  2. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    I've only got two viennas Joe but personally I leave the gut with 1 wind on the barrel
    so the pressure on the knot is reduced. I tie the spool end around the arbor inside the spool.
     
  3. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    #3 Tinker Dwight, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
    1/4 turn is enough and the clock will stop before it lifts off enough to tangle.
    That is if the weight has a flat bottom. Otherwise, you'd need to know how
    little weight the clock will run with. A weight at a 45 degree angle will
    pull with quite a bit of force ( a little less than half the weight ).
    When it first hit the bottom and starts to lean, it has almost no weight
    on the cord and tends to stall the clock.
    I have a Cuckoo that runs well enough that it will let the weight go
    all the way flat before stopping.
    So the 1/4 is the final resting position.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  4. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Ditto; A very small amount to remain on drum when fully bottomed.
     
  5. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Looks like I'm too cautious:)
     
  6. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    It's your cord Shimmy. Use as much as you'd like.
    A smaller amount has less tendency to slip out of position
    than a full turn does. This is a case that more isn't
    better. It just needs to be enough to not lift off the drum.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  7. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    Maybe, but you aren't likely to get a cracked case bottom, broken glass, dented pendulum bob, bent weight shell, stuff like that. Birdnests are inconvenient and frustrating but can be sorted out pretty easy.
     
  8. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Very good point
     
  9. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Ideally, the weight should come to rest on the floor with the cord coming out of the drum at the 9 O'clock position. If you are expecting a little stretch from the material, like nylon, shoot for the 12 O'clock position. I think the later would agree with Tink's explanation. A small loop made with an overhand, or figure 8 knot, is a good connection at the eye hook. If your loop is a tad big, just make an extra wrap or 2 around the eye to shorten it up.

    Try 100 pound test Spyder wire, or equivalent, you won't be sorry. It has very low stretch and very little 'memory', the spooling/bird's nest thing is a non problem.

    Willie X
     
  10. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    hi,

    Thanks for the quick responses. I agree with tinker i think 1/4 turn is probably just right that way it will never "bird nest" and rewind properly on spool, everytime. I just can't imagine the maker wanting the buyer to ever have the possibility of this happening.. I even wonder it maybe they hung from factory. if the knot will hold at the other end why not at the drum? The main difference i see it the action of gut folding on edge of drum everytime wound from fiull stop, but then how many times were they left to run out between windings. Joe.
     
  11. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    willie,

    what is spider wire?

    Joe
     
  12. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    It is a type of fishing line, Joe. I use a braided nylon fishing line for this, test 50 pounds, Stren sonic braid. Like Willie says, it doesn't birdsnest with the weight off.
     
  13. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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  14. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    thanks, I had a feeling it was something like that. I will look into it next time i have one of these. just as long as i don't have to thread a worm on it. Joe.
     
  15. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Klok,

    Kevlar fishing line.

    Right now I am using a low price version. Got it from Amazon, $17 for 1550 feet. It's gray in color. This much 'small' nylon, from Merrits would cost $120.

    I'll post the part number, if anyone is interested. This stuff is pretty close to a 'universal' cord replacement. Might be trouble on wood pulleys over time, due to it's small diameter, a little over .5 mm.

    Willie X
     
  16. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Please do :)
     
  17. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    I should note that an undetected bird nested line can be dangerous.
    It can cause the line to allow the weight to drop a couple inches in
    free fall. If doing so, it can snap a line rated for a lot more than the
    weight used.
    As long a line is touching the drum and not lifted off at a bend or knot,
    it is sufficient.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  18. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Amazon's description: 500M 100LB Super Dyneema Strong Braided Fishing Line

    Amazon's part number: X000K314FN

    High quality, no brand, made in China.

    This will work in all but the very small Vienna's, you will need 65# for them.

    Good luck, Willie X

    Notes, the test is not consistent with the diameter from brand to brand. The just mentioned line is a little larger than some other brands of the same test. Most line will specify the actual diameter on the spool.
     
  19. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Thanks, Willie!
     
  20. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    Willie,

    thanks for the info, I will look into the line next time I have one of these. I did set the drum at 9 o'clock as suggested and set length of the gut, looks like this will solve any concerns I had. I like the idea of using gut since that is what was in the clock originally. But agree that there are a lot of materials available to us now that were not when these clocks were made that deserve concideration as replacements. Since these clocks are mine and I'm not doing repairs for others I prefer to replicate the original condition as much as possible. Thanks for your noteworthy advice and suggestions. Joe.
     
  21. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    One other thing to consider. If the clock is
    near a window, the UV can rot most synthetics remarkably
    fast.
    I had a spool of 80# test that I'd place in the
    window over the sink. It never got direct sun light but
    after 8 months I could easily snap the outer layers of
    the spool.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  22. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Tink,

    I repaired a common OG last year that had been restrung with green nylon fishing braid in the mid 1950s. Still looked good after 50+ years of use. I told the customer that it seemed to be OK but I could replace it if he liked. He wanted to keep it because it was done by is father who was an avid fisherman.

    Also, I have two 3/8" x 50' braided nylon ropes on my truck. They were given to me about 35 years ago and have been used steadily to tie down stuff on several trucks over those years. Nylon ropes will last way longer than a truck! The ropes are about worn out and one of them is now two shorter ropes, but they are still in use.

    I can vouch for nylon ...

    Willie X
     
  23. svenedin

    svenedin Registered User

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    It's a tricky one this one. I have never used anything other than gut in Viennas and longcase clocks. I can see the advantages of synthetic materials but it just doesn't seem right. I have had terrible trouble with line tangles, much more so with fine gut in Viennas, but I carry on using gut because nylon (or whatever else) isn't original and I also think it is too tough and could damage winding drums over time. Gut also looks right!
     
  24. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    I take back what I said. It must have been one of the other
    materials I was thinking of. Nylon is said to have good resistance to UV.
    Tinker Dwight


     
  25. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Plastics and UV are pretty weird. Clear, or white, polyethylene will last for maybe a year in direct sun while black will last for decades.

    I have been using the Kevlar here and there for the past 5 years or so. Seems like a very promising material so far.

    I like the way gut looks too, and the way it holds its round shape. But, I hate the lack of quality control (presently and recently), and the tendency to bird's nest badly. A cord that breaks prematurely can you cause a lot of grief.

    Willie X
     

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