Policy How to handle eBay sales of discussed items

Discussion in 'Message Board Help & Notices' started by Tom McIntyre, Jan 24, 2019.

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  1. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Just to clarify the part of this discussion related to eBay, our policy does not allow sellers to post discussions here about watches they are actively selling. The reason is that the result is too much like an unpaid ad. Business Members can purchase ad space on the Message Board and the main NAWCC web site, but that is a separate matter.

    If a user of the Message Board has been discussing a watch they own and decide they want to sell it, they should use the reporting function to alert the moderators that it is being sold. The moderators will remove the discussion from view until the sale is complete and then restore the discussion to view. If at that point, you or anyone else wants to continue the discussion of the watch they may.

    The same is true of clocks or anything else one wants to know more about before offering it for sale. Many of us are happy to help sellers provide better descriptions of the items.
     
  2. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Tom:

    I take exception to this concept. Although the intent is worthy, the application is problematic.

    First of all, it is totally unrealistic to expect sellers to search out each and every watch they offer for sale to see if they had participated in a discussion of it. It might be easy if the discussion was yesterday, or maybe last week; but things get hazy after a month, or a year, or a decade or two (I know that you realize that some of us have been posting on this Message Board since before its recorded history began in 2000).

    Second, for those same two decades, we've been encouraging inexperienced sellers to post their watches on the Message Board to obtain the information with which to accurately describe their watches. This concept runs counter to that encouragement.

    Third, this concept could discourage experienced sellers from participating in discussions, causing the rest of us to lose the value of that experience. Who would want to be taken to task for expressing a positive opinion of a watch that he/she has bought six months later and is now selling?
     
    musicguy, OldSchool1959 and Jim Haney like this.
  3. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    #3 Jim Haney, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
    Tom,
    I agree with Kent. I am guilty of this although I don't remember the specific watches, but I sell alot on eBay and over the years I am sure that some of the watches have been discussed here.

    This was not in the rules when i was Moderating the PW Forums and it looks like it is something that you have come up with on your own ?

    What we can do, and have done, is "Report a Post" if we see a current thread and that watch is currently for sale as we have always done.

    The intent of the rule was to avoid effecting the sale either + or - by discussing the positives or negatives of a specific timepiece.

    The Rules don't mention prior discussions at all. It would be a stretch to call a old discussion a reference to an active sale.

    Rule: Links or references to active sales or auctions will be removed.
     
  4. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    You are both taking an extreme view of what I said.

    Our moderation policy is to not discuss active sales. If a seller is gathering information on a watch and decides it is worth selling, he should, when he makes that decision, report the discussion and disclose he is selling the item.

    There was nothing in what I said to imply that he would have to go back and find a 15 year old discussion and notify the moderators that the watch was now for sale.

    As to Kent's final remark about being taken to task. Please report any moderator or admin who does that. It is not an acceptable practice for our moderators or admins to admonish anyone. Nor is it acceptable for members in general to scold others. The goal is to be friendly and inviting.

    That is the other job of the "report" link. If you think someone is being mean, report it. Mean is not who we are.
     
  5. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    This is what I meant when I wrote "the application is problematic." There's no mention of the length of a period between discussing a watch and offering it for sale with respect to requesting a moderator to (temporarily) remove the discussion.

    Regrading my remark about taking someone to task, I didn't mean for it to sound harsh, but what is the envisioned enforcement method?
     
  6. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The only action we ever take is to remove a thread or post from view with an apology to the poster and an explanation why.

    Sometimes if the same person persistently does the same thing, the post is just removed from view without an explanation because moderators get frustrated too.

    While the abuses you are imagining could occur. If they do, they should be reported and the volunteer staff will try to make sure it is corrected.

    The more explicit the rules are, the more opportunity there is for disagreement. The best way to have a community is to have well described community behavior that we all pretty much agree is good. and leave it to people to be kind to one another.
     
  7. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    We try to be reasonable about such things, and if the watch or clock were discussed some time in the past and is now for sale, as long as there is no reference made to that prior discussion it would likely go unnoticed and would not be an issue.

    There's no problem with discussing selling points and/or what to look for when buying an item. However discussions of active sales items are prohibited, partly because we can't know who, for sure, the seller is or whether he's the OP of the thread, and partly because we don't want to be party to discussions which may alter the outcome of a sale, anger the seller, and have potential for litigation that we can't afford.

    Discussions of past sales are allowed as long as pictures are left on the original site and only linked to here, or when there is specific provable permission given to use the seller's photographs. Discussions of potential sales take place all the time, and as long as there are no reference to or hints about WHEN or WHERE the item might be sold, we allow such discussions to take place.

    If we find an item currently being discussed is for sale, or it's reported for sale and we can verify it, the thread is removed. Deliberate ignoring of the rules can be dealt with firmly, so we appreciate the membership honoring the rules and their commitment to obey them.

    One function of the message board that could be used more often is the private conversation function. We don't stick our noses into those discussions, so they are indeed private. And now you can invite several members at a time into such discussions.
     
  8. Ronald Thacker

    Ronald Thacker Registered User
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    New member here. I've been reading thru policy, but I'm still confused. I've been trying to understand the proper way to do the following and be in compliance with NAWCC rules. My intent is to give members first shot at the item if I decide to sell. At the same time, receiving fair value for what I have. Any help is appreciated.
    1. post pictures and description try to understand more about a recent local purchase of matched early clock parts.
    2. depending on what I learn, I may want to work out a trade a NAWCC member for an item they may be willing to part with.
    3. If no one in the NAWCC is interested or has nothing I'm interested in to trade, I may decide to sell it.
    Thanks.
     
  9. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    We bend quite a bit to help those who want to restore artifacts. The Parts Wanted thread in Clock Repair has been there a long time. If you have not yet made a decision to sell something, the fact that you might make such a decision in the future is not really our concern.

    We do not have a means to make favorable purchase opportunities available to members here on the Message Board. Within the dues paying NAWCC organization the Mart sales and purchase organ does provide that.

    We also have no rules against members here using either the Conversation facility or regular email to discuss private business with one another.

    The only real restriction we have is discussions of items that are currently for sale in a visible venue. When those are noticed by the moderators or admins or are reported by other users, the threads containing the discussion are removed from view until the commercial transaction is complete.
     
  10. shutterbug

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    Although your intentions are good, we don't support individual members trying to sell each other their goods in the public forums. We don't permit mentioning that an item is for sale on any site. If you discuss an item in the forums and later decide to sell it, the best bet is to just list it on your preferred sale site and hope that someone sees it. You can't mention on the board that it is for sale, will be for sale or imply either of those in your message content.
    As Tom mentioned, if you have a particular member or members in mind who might be interested in the sale, you can have a private conversation with them behind the public part of the board and it remains between the parties invited to the conversation. That's about all you can do.
     
  11. Ronald Thacker

    Ronald Thacker Registered User
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    Understood. Thank you for the clarification.
     
  12. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    Just while we're on this subject...

    A while ago I recall seeing a small number of threads which started with e.g. "I just bought this watch for $50, did I do well or should I send it back for a refund?"
    I'm suggesting that we should add a clarification to the rule - if there is still some possibility of a return/reversal happening then the commercial transaction is not complete, therefore discussing the watch is still off-limits.

    Also just to say, I agree with the first post in this thread. When someone posts in about some fabulous super-rare watch that is or will soon be offered for auction then an unpaid ad is exactly what it is. I've seen a couple of those, and there's definitely something naff about it.
     
  13. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I don't hink it is possible for eBay, but I have been thinking about providing a service to auction houses where they could contract for discussion space in a separate area and we could have moderated discussions of the items on offer.

    The two sins in the sales situation are the free advertising and the defamation of items offered for sale by those in competition or with an axe to grind. If a well known collector attacks the quality of an item on offer the auction house would need to have someone available to offer a counter position, etc.

    I envision such a facility to be similar to what used to go on in auction previews and still does to some extent. The attendance at live auctions at the facilities has fallen off so sharply that a lot of the previous spirit seems to be lost. I imagine it would be a valuable service, if we could manage it.
     
  14. shutterbug

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    In the above scenario: "I just bought this watch for $50.00", the sale is complete and the mention of the purchasing price, although perhaps in poor taste to some, is not a violation of any rule here. Trying to ascertain whether a purchase was a good buy or not is an understandable desire, and our membership would no doubt be able to offer opinions. Whether or not the seller would be willing to refund the purchase price is another matter, but it never hurts to try ;)
     

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