How to get the cannon wheel of the center arbor on Enfield clock?

[MtKuile]

I am cleaning a dirty three train Enfield Clock Co. clock which has the 12 tooth cannon wheel tightly fastened to the center arbor. The cannon wheel also contains the cam that triggers the Westminster carillon every quarter of an hour. The cannon wheel seems friction pushed onto the center arbor so tightly, that I cannot easily get it off. I am reluctant to use force for fear of damaging the arbor or the cannon wheel or both. If I do not get the cannon wheel off, the arbor I cannot properly clean the center arbor pivot hole. What can I best do in this case? Is there a special tool or trick to get the cannon wheel of the center arbor?

 

[wow]

I usually do not remove it. I clean the movement plate with it intact. There is such a small amount of movement off that arbour, that it is not usually necessary to bush. I usually clean it with carburator cleaner before it goes in the ultrasonic. If you have to remove it, it is pressed on, and you must carefully pry it off. Be careful. Good Luck!
Will

 

[Kevin W.]

I am with Will, i would clean around it and leave it on.

 

[Clockworks999]

I leave them on, too. Very difficult to remove, and hard to get back on.

 

[Tom Kloss]

I agree with Clockworks999, wow and Veritas.

Unless there is excessive wear in the center hole, better left alone.

T.J. Kloss

 

[rdstorer]

I guess I am different. I always remove them. Why? I prefer to assemble by placing all the wheels on the back plate. I remove the gear by placing it over a "crows foot" apply just a little heat from a propane torch, tap it once and it falls out easily. Nothing gets to hot, no marks are left. Replacing it is easy also. A little heat allows it to drop into place. Brass expands much faster than steel so just a little heat works for me. Wheather its right or wrong, its been working for me for over 40 years.

RDS

 

[Mike Phelan]

I never remove them unless there is a problem, but that's unlikely as most of the pressure is on the rear pivot. That said, I am restoring one that needed bushing at the front a few weeks ago.

If you do have to remove it, it's a bit of a pain to get the minute hand chiming precisely at the quarters.

RDS, you must have a very thin crows-foot to get into the 2mm or so between the cannon pinion and front plate!

I agree that heat will make it easier if you have to remove it.

 

[rdstorer]

I do not put the crows foot between the canon pinon and the front plate. I put the front plate, with center wheel and pinion still attached, on the top of a crows foot. Clamp the crows foot in a vise, just let the center wheel dangle under the foot. The front plate and pinion are on the top of the crows foot. Apply just a small amount of heat and seldom does it ever take more that a good tap with a wood mallet.

RDS

 

[MARK A. BUTTERWORTH]

Suggestion: take a pair of paint can openers with the small right angle at the ends to open the cans. Grind the ends down along the bottom until you can get under the pinion. I have never had something I could not get off. It is amazing. They are cheap and can be replaced after a few uses if needed.

 

[wow]

Great idea, Mark. I like that. I seldom remove them, but they are a pain. I have cracked them before and that's no fun!!!

 

[Mike Phelan]

I do not put the crows foot between the canon pinon and the front plate. I put the front plate, with center wheel and pinion still attached, on the top of a crows foot. Clamp the crows foot in a vise, just let the center wheel dangle under the foot. The front plate and pinion are on the top of the crows foot. Apply just a small amount of heat and seldom does it ever take more that a good tap with a wood mallet.

RDS

Ah - see what you mean now. Thanks.

Mark's idea is a good one - don't think we have such things as paint can openers here as we use a pair of screwdrivers to do that, but a few bits of 1/2" MS square can be hammered and filed to a flattened curve for similar jobs. I have some somewhere that I made years ago to get a recalcitrant hour hand off.

 

[MARK A. BUTTERWORTH]

Speaking of heat, if one invests in these new miniature pencil propane torches [e.g. Bernz O Matic] and heat only the brass part such as the star wheel on a hand shaft it makes the job many times easier. Even if the steel shaft is heated, the coefficient of thermal expansion of the two metals is such that the brass will expand more than the steel and open up. They can be had for about $25 over there.

 

[daveR]

Following on Mark's sugestion, If you can still find them, metal bicycle tyre levers (not the plastic ones), will also work. you must have two or you will bend the centre arbor. You may have to thin the ends a little. I made some by getting some 8" coach bolts and hammering the end to a curve and to hopefully harden it a bit. When you replace it, note mike's comment closely or you will have to move the hole in the hand ! Put a small piece of brass tube over the arbor onto the pinion and support the back plate while carefully tapping it to the correct height.
David

 

[Mike Phelan]

Speaking of heat, if one invests in these new miniature pencil propane torches [e.g. Bernz O Matic]....They can be had for about $25 over there.

I use one of these as well and I think it came from a pound shop (£1 for anything). $25? Gulp!

 

[bangster]

Suggestion: take a pair of paint can openers with the small right angle at the ends to open the cans. Grind the ends down along the bottom until you can get under the pinion. I have never had something I could not get off. It is amazing. They are cheap and can be replaced after a few uses if needed.

Now, I like that! I like it!

bangster

 

[shutterbug]

Yeah, it should go in the tips/tricks thread

 

[MARK A. BUTTERWORTH]

Two comments. I mispoke in saying the BErnz O Matic torch was fueled by propane; it is butane. The same as the cigarette lighters.

Also, before we put the star wheel back on, we ream it out a bit. Those are on way to tightly. If you open too much, it is simple to close it back a bit with a punch. It only needs to lift the unlocking lever. Also in putting it back on, we put a razor blade underneath as a feeler guage so it cannot be driven on too far.

 

[R&A]

I find that using a dial indicator or travel indicator and gauge pins to find the distance between the plate and the star wheel. I put the indicator on the top of the arbor where the hands go on and lift to bottom out the end shake. Then I take that distance and add .005. So if it moves .055 I add the .005 and find the .060 gauge pin and use it. I do this so it doesn't interrupt the end shake and have the star wheel riding on the plates and causing more friction. Thus causing a power loss on the time train. You can also use gauge blocks.

H/C