How accurate are your antique clocks?

[Greg R.]

I find that most of the clocks that I see are within a few minutes each month. They all seem to change with heat, humidity,temp., etc.

As long as they are within a couple of minutes every couple of weeks, they are fine with me.

Greg

 

[Don DeMarcus]

Hi
The biggest problem with these clocks is not the clock, it with the owner.

Who has time to wind them all.

You see what I mean.

I did not buy mine to keep time. I bought them because I like them.

Don

 

[Carroll Hardin]

Hello,
My best timekeepers are the GB vienna,s-however,I just completed restoring an Ingraham store regulator- time and calendar- that kept close time all week, losing about 2 min at week's end.Very unusual for 8 day spring American clock.
Happy New Year to All,

Carroll Hardin

 

[Pete Riegel]

Phil has kindly mentioned our just-starting ST2 study. We have seven people involved now, one with two clocks. More are welcome.

The data-taking will require about 5 minutes per week.

If you have a ST2 and are willing to join in the study, please contact me for further information

Pete Riegel
riegelpete@aol.com

Edited to make the email address live

[This message was edited by Phil Schilke on December 31, 2003 at 9:29.]

 

[Mike306p/Ansoniaman]

Well I like all my clocks , watches and pocket watches. As for being accurate ....Well thats a problem. My Viennas keep very good time. The Crystal Regulators and Carriage Clocks do well as do the Grandfather Clocks . The Swingers are terrible but they look great. What else can I say . I agree with Don I buy em , cuz I like em. If you mess with them and take the time you can get em fairly accurate ... They are antique too. Mike 0136966

 

[Bob W.]

My Seth #10 Regulator keeps time to within a second a month. My other large wall regulators without mercury bobs don't do quite as well but are still within 2-5 seconds per month. My one mystery swinger keeps time to within 1/2 hour per month....but I like looking at it.

Bob

 

[bil2054]

Looking around the house, I have 20 or so clocks that are spot on ... twice every day! Of those I keep running, I have an Ingraham "Dahlia" that surprises me by being within a couple of minutes per week, and without being fussed at.

Bill Miller
NAWCC Member #157710
Bill's web page

 

[Peter]

Hi

Like Bill, I have clocks that are perfect timekeepers if I only look at them twice a day. Of the rest, I find my 3 longcase clocks the most accurate - within a couple of minutes a month. They are English clock made between 1780 and 1820. The English fusee movement dial clocks are very good. The (French made) carriage clocks would be next but they have two classes - those with compensated balance wheels are good as long as I don't let them wind down too much. The rest - English, American and German clocks of various descriptions made between about 1850 and 1930 vary considerably.

They are all 'nice' clocks but not having won a lottary recently (or at all) they are not horologically important clocks. If anyone would donate a nice Georgean Bracket clock or similar to my collection, I would be happy to do a comparison.

All my clocks keep excellent eime the day I wind them, so I suppose they gain as much pleasure from contact with me as I do them.

Happy New Year

Peter

 

[jmk@izzy.net]

Greetings all:

Our 53 year old cheap 400 day clock keeps time to about 5 minutes per week - I keep it on the mantel over the fireplace, which makes the timekeeping even more remarkable. Best timekeekper is a cheap import banjo, 30 day, time and strike, keeps time withen 10 seconds the first 20 days or so then speeds up to about 1 minute fast over the next 10 days. Not bad for a $100 clock.
Kosmo

 

[lylepete]

My best time keeper is a grivolas 400 day. It took me a year to get there and a little luck. My becker 400 day is about 4 min. a week after 3 weeks of adjustments. My 9 tube winterhalder is about a minute a week. My terry type ST #2 and howard #4 are about 5 min a week. They can keep better time, but I haven't fined tuned them, because they are in an area I don't use very often.
William

 

[Pete Riegel]

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Our Seth Thomas #2 timekeeping study is under way. New participants (ST2 owners) are welcome. Datataking is not burdensome - about 5 minutes a week should do it.

If you send in data, you will get a weekly report on how all the other clocks in the study are doing. Otherwise you can wait a year until the article in the NAWCC Bulletin appears.

Interested? Send me an inquiry.

Pete Riegel
riegelpete@aol.com

 

[hc3]

My French marbles are generally within a couple of minutes a week, but if I work on the adjustent they will usually keep railroad time for several months.

hc3

 

[John Hubby]

As most folks know I have a bunch of 400-Day and other torsion clocks. One thing in particular I like about them is not having to wind every week, actually I do that twice a year at the time changes. If one is very patient and using the right techniques, most all of these can be regulated to within a couple minutes a month, and I have several that do that. That includes clocks that were made from 1878 all the way to the 1980's.

For small clocks, the best timekeepers I have are Atmos clocks (by the way also torsion clocks). With proper regulation I have two that keep within two minutes in six months, and several others at about a minute a month. The oldest of these was made in 1930 and is in the minute a month category.

The best timekeeper I've got (other than my Junghans Mega radio signal reset) is an electrically rewound spring drive swiss regulator with seconds pendulum, by David Perret and made in 1901. It is consistently within one minute in six months.

John Hubby, Secretary
The International 400-Day Clock Chapter #168

 

[Bill Ward]

Generally speaking, the most accurate mechanical timekeepers are astronomical regulators. They are in the accuracy range of normal quartz watches (though at least one watch manufacturer- Seiko?- has a higher rated watch with a temprature regulated quartz crystal, which increases accuracy an order of magnitude.) These clocks have (usually) seconds pendulums, often "free" (meaning that the escapement interferes with it as little as possible, e.g. impulsing it only 1 or 2 times per minute), always temprature compensated, often in a temprature and pressure controlled case ( a steel vacuum tank). Therefore, escapements which interfere with the pendulum, such as the recoil or verge, are not acceptable. Measures are always taken to insure constancy of impulse, so spring drive, which varies, is out, though sometimes a "remontoire" ( a spring device which provides constant energy to the pendulum close to the escapement, to obviate the variation unavoidable from gearing) was popular in the 19thC.
Although the definition of "regulator" has varied over the years with the advance of horological science, thus causing confusion (i.e. a regulator of 1750 would not have been considered worthy of the name in 1850), the following points might be borne in mind when considering high accuracy:
Accuracy is the only consideration. The regulators duty is allow a professional to set other clocks and watches. Looks, amusing animations, and sounds are of no concern. Therfore, although a true regulator is never equipped with strike, chime, or musical appurtenances, it sometimes does make an awful racket, perhaps several times a minute. Many is the proud new possessor of an industrial looking synchronome who, after successfully convincing his spouse to let it into the house, is told it must be banned or stopped because the household is deprived of sleep while it runs!
Although many consumers, and even collectors, are suckered by the use of the advertising phrase "Regulator" pasted prominently on a clock, this doesn't make it one. This usage has become so common that it's applied to whole species of clock (Vienna regulator) or even whole genera (wall clocks) when it's doubtful that many examples would fit the true definiton. At this point, it's unlikly to change, but it can be confusing.

 

[Mike306p/Ansoniaman]

Pete If you are out there.What ever happened with the Seth Thomas # 2 accuracy test for keeping time ? How is it going ? Mike0136966

 

[Pete Riegel]

Dear Mike,

The study is alive and well, and we have 6 months of weekly timing data from 8 different clocks. All those participants who send in weekly data are getting weekly reports of how everybody's timing is going.

Results are fascinating. There is still time for new participants. Any 8-day weight-driven clock with a second hand will do.

Those who don't participate in the study must wait until the article comes out. I plan to write it in another 5 months or so, when we have a full year of data.

 

[SrWilson]

With my clocks I have them all around the right area of time but all within a min or so of each other to prevent over lapping quarter chimes I actually use my video clock as the accurate time one as my other clocks are all within the right time but might be head by a minute or two each to stop over lapping the chimes.

 

[Steve Cunningham]

My clocks are as accurate as I will let them be. But that requires tinkering. Years ago, I would set each at 9:00PM, and advance the minute hand until it struck. I'd stop the pendulum, and leave the door open. Then at 9:00PM exactly, I'd walk through the house, starting every clock. At ten, it was pandemonium! But by the end of the week, they had drifted a few minutes, so it wasn't as noisy.

 

[John Hubby]

Good discussion. I have a 1901 David Perret electrically rewound spring regulator, invar rod seconds pendulum with micrometer rating adjustment, that holds to less than two minutes in six months. That's when I reset the clock with the time changes so it's easy to check the performance.

John Hubby

 

[Original Dial]

Since I started this discussion some of you may be suprised to know that one of the most accurate clocks that I now have is a disc pendulum early 400 day clock that I restored. I have had previous poor experience with 400 day clocks keeping good time but this one works great, I never would have expected it.

 

[John Hubby]

Hi Dennis,

Properly set up and regulated, almost any 400-Day clock will keep within 1 minute per week or better. There are three "secrets" to this kind of performance:

1) Use only Horolovar Suspension Springs

2) Movement squeaky clean, pivots polished, pivot holes burnished with a smooth broach, no burrs on any of the teeth, properly lubricated (Mobil 1 or Slick 50 on the mainspring, a synthetic such as Etsyntha 5 on all pivots, drop of watch oil on each pallet), anchor pin NO oil but burnished to hard high shine.

3) Regulation with 4-ball pendulum always start with the clock running too fast and work slowly toward slowing it down . . that "locks" the parts of the pendulum to eliminate slack. Disc pendulums use same principle to regulate going in one direction only . . slow to fast or fast to slow, to eliminate any slack in the regulating rod and weight assembly.

John Hubby, Secretary
The International 400-Day Clock Chapter #168

 

[Jim_Miller]

I have close to 40, but only keep 4 wound at once. My best is a New Haven Wall Calendar (ca:1890-1900) which is good for about 1 minute per month. My worst (right now) is a German Wall mini-regulator wall clock. It loses about 30 minutes every 24 hrs. I mentioned "right now".
this is because this hangs on what I refer to as my "WALL FROM HELL". It seems that no matter what I hang on this wall, it always loses time, or stops after a short period. The wife and I enjoy the looks and sounds of our collection and if I want to know what time it is, I look at the digital on my cable box.

 

[MShaw]

I have four clocks I keep running. The 1820 English grandfather stays within less than a minute a week. Suprisingly the 30 hour Regula cuckoo runs it a close second. The two 8 day american clocks are usually within 5 min / week but must be fussed with.

 

[CTMusicStraps]

I’m still tweaking on a few of my Seth Thomas, New Haven Mantel and Hermle movement Bracket clocks; but for now the Howard Miller Jennison Wall Clock with Hermle Triple time 45 cm bi-metal grid adjustable pendulum is my most accurate. I’ve got it as close as 5-10 seconds a week, and when I tried to adjust it closer I went over and had to start back, but it’s around a few seconds a week.
CT

I find that most of the clocks that I see are within a few minutes each month. They all seem to change with heat, humidity,temp., etc.

As long as they are within a couple of minutes every couple of weeks, they are fine with me.

Greg

 

[Willie X]

High expectations always lead to: frustration, disapointment, anxiety and depression.

So, always try to keep your expectations low and everything will be fine.

Willie X

 

[Bernhard J.]

My Strasser & Rohde, not surprisingly is whithin a few seconds per month, and this might even be improved if I would care.

The Paul Garnier Frankenstein in my office (pin escapement, fake compensation pendulum from presumably an English clock, fake because of lead instead of mercury) is within a minute per month.

The Knox (longcase of about 1770) bought recently still needs adjustment, presently 5 minutes per day. I expect to achieve better than one minute per week.

The anonymeous French portal clock of about 1860 (still to report in detail) with pin escapement, compensation pendulum, blade bearing for the pendulum, should achieve less than one minute per month.

The Brocot (mercury compensation pendulum) with perpetual calendar is with a few minutes a month.

The Hettich torsion table clock (electromechanical) is within a few minutes per month.

The Bösenroth kitchen clock is within a minute a day.

I love them all, irrespective value and/or precision!

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Many of the clocks I owned were pre or early industrial age. Probably not many trains to catch, clocks to "punch" at the factory, etc. Many still arose with the sun and rested when it set. Also, public clocks and bells or whistles. Any clock, then, was an improvement?

So honestly, I am just not terribly concerned about great accuracy as I suspect many who originally owned them were not either. How accurate is some clunky ww shelf clock going to be especially 190 years later?? Holds for spring clocks, too. I typically don't run but a few of my clocks anyhow. I collect them for their history and their aesthetics. I like clunky.

Yes, I understand some do collect precision clocks, e.g., regulators, chronometers, etc., where accuracy is more important.

RM

 

[Bernhard J.]

Well, properly maintained old clocks in fine mechanical condition do exhibit considerable accuracy. This holds also even for e.g. old English (or Scottish) longcase clocks of the 17th and 18th century. In case of the early ones setting of the hands means to push up the hood. Afterwards it became a little bit more "comfortable", the hood could be pulled off to the front. In any case the owners would not have liked having to do this every day, so I suppose that they were regulated quite good by the watchmaker, who set it up at the place of destination. Presumably the accuracy was within a few minutes in a week, after a week a 8 days clock needed winding anyway, so that time could be corrected by this occasion.

So, now I go looking after the Knox clock (stands in office in the meeting room). Three minutes fast a day is not acceptable

 

[Bernhard J.]

In case of the early ones setting of the hands means to push up the hood. Afterwards it became a little bit more "comfortable", the hood could be pulled off to the front

Bernhard: rubbish The hoods have a door, of course.

 

[RickNB]

I have wall clock from the USSR that I correct about once a month - it will be out by about 2 minutes. It's a strange little thing with a weight that has to be lifted twice daily. The weight is very light yet the thing ticks loudly. Once the short pendulum starts swinging, it just doesn't want to stop. And there's no way to adjust the escapement other than bending the anchor itself. It looks like a toy. And it keeps good time!

 

[Mike Phelan]

My 1720-ish longcase keeps time to about 2 minutes a week. When it's warmer in summer it loses slightly, but like most LCs it's easy just to open the hood door.

 

[comet61]

I have a 1874 Anglo-American with a Caledonian Registered movement. After the rebuild and repair to the escapement. I lose about 1 minute a month. More if I rewind on the 8th day.

 

[Jessk09]

I have an 1880’s Black Forest “Picture Frame” clock which is usually pretty accurate, probably only losing or gaining about 2-3 mins per month. (It’s also not showing the correct time currenty)

 

[demoman3955]

I have 3 that are within a couple minutes a month, and ill get them closer, but it takes at least 6 to 8 months or more to get them close to where i want them. 1 long case late 1800s, a small
Seth Thomas time only, and a new to me 400 day. My next challenge is my Synchronome.

 

[Philip Snowden]

Hi
The biggest problem with these clocks is not the clock, it with the owner.

Who has time to wind them all.

You see what I mean.

I did not buy mine to keep time. I bought them because I like them.

Don

Yes me too I’ve just bought what I’ve liked and probably wind the same 5 each week .It’s just a fantastic hobby.

 

[bruce linde]

i have maybe 50 clocks running... it's a privilege and pleasure to wind them every monday morning. they all keep time within a minute a week... if they don't, they need servicing. i don't think i have anything newer than 90 years old.

i understand that other people have kids and/or additional responsibilities and may not have the time that i do to manage their herds. i've also had the benefit of a clock mentor to teach me enough to handle most issues (except for platform escapements).

yes, humidity and/or heat will affect them... some more than others. but, winding them every week means i can monitor those same changes over time, as the herd tends to stay together. and, you get to know each clock's personality.

i'm suggesting the question should be: how accurate are your clocks that have been serviced within the last reasonable amount of time?

 

[Chris.K]

My 1913 Junghans 3 train bracket clock keeps time down to about 10 seconds a month give or take.

 

[Willie X]

ck,
That looks almost identical to an old Ansonia I have here. The winding arbor placement is different. That's about all I would notice at a glance. Willie X

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Yes me too I’ve just bought what I’ve liked and probably wind the same 5 each week .It’s just a fantastic hobby.

No way I'm winding all of my clocks. I too have a handful that are distributed throughout the house that I keep running regularly

The reasons are:
1. Just too many
2. I couldn't hear the TV over the ticking and potential disturbance of sleep
3. Many are 30 hour (e.g., many of the ww)
4. All are complete but would need to be serviced to run reliably and safely (dirty dry movements are damaged by running). And even then, they may not. For example, I have an 8 day key wind ww tall case that despite being serviced at great expense and taking many years to get back STILL doesn't run.
5. Some of my clocks are > 200 years old, others approaching that landmark. Time for them to rest rather than continuing to accumulate wear and tear. Again, I believe that's especially true for ww clocks.

I collect what I like and what is complete and generally all original. Most need to have the movements properly serviced before being run regularly. I don't do my own cleaning or repairs, so there's the expense. The other problem is finding a good repair person who is local. I know a superb repair person whom I would love to have work on my clocks, but he is far away and I'm rather nervous about shipping movements. Too many horror stories about things being lost forever.

So, I have no problem just looking, studying, learning and enjoying.

i have maybe 50 clocks running... it's a privilege and pleasure to wind them every monday morning. they all keep time within a minute a week... if they don't, they need servicing. i don't think i have anything newer than 90 years old.

i understand that other people have kids and/or additional responsibilities and may not have the time that i do to manage their herds. i've also had the benefit of a clock mentor to teach me enough to handle most issues (except for platform escapements).

yes, humidity and/or heat will affect them... some more than others. but, winding them every week means i can monitor those same changes over time, as the herd tends to stay together. and, you get to know each clock's personality.

i'm suggesting the question should be: how accurate are your clocks that have been serviced within the last reasonable amount of time?

That's dedication.

RM

 

[Jim DuBois]

For years I returned every clock I bought to running condition and enjoyed them considerably. But, as time passed and I acquired many clocks keeping them all running became problematic. And as my interests changed to 30-hr clocks and many of them woodworks, I no longer kept up the pretense of running everything. Today, I try to return these to "run-able" condition, meaning they are equipped with all the proper parts to run, are in a condition where everything meshes as it should, and they could be run if someone would want to do so. I have about 50 clocks in the house today, a fair percentage are 30-hr, and also a fair percentage are woodworks, and not a single one is being run as we speak. And of the last 50 or so clocks I have sold I don't remember a single person asking if it ran. Doesn't seem as important to many folks as it used to be? We do run a tall clock my wife picked up, it is modern but doesn't look like it is. Modern 8-day cable wind in a new but painted and aged case. A true sacrilege for sure but it keeps good time and requires nothing from me save a weekly wind. And it runs about 15 seconds fast a week.

 

[bwclock]

Here are photos of three located in the main workroom which I wind. The two wall clocks I use to see how well the clocks that have been recently repaired are keeping time(regulating them). The tall case is set a minute or two before the actual time here so that its bell might alert me to the impending hour. These three clocks are regulated close enough for my purposes. I reset them when I wind them once a week. Oh, yea, the dial clock above the computer keeps around one minute a week. Most of the other clocks I seldom wind, having been born under the thirteenth sign of the Zodiac, Onslow, whose main attribute is "bone idleness".
BB

 

[Danwatts2005]

Sir, if the 30- hour wood works are displayed but not running, how should they best be left? Run down with weights on the bottom of the case, weights up a bit, weights up anywhere, disconnected, etc?

 

[bruce linde]

Sir, if the 30- hour wood works are displayed but not running, how should they best be left? Run down with weights on the bottom of the case, weights up a bit, weights up anywhere, disconnected, etc?

i would say weights down... no danger of cords breaking, no stress on any teeth, etc.

 

[TJ Cornish]

Most of the other clocks I seldom wind, having been born under the thirteenth sign of the Zodiac, Onslow, whose main attribute is "bone idleness".
BB

View attachment 715840 View attachment 715842 View attachment 715843

“I’m completely surrounded by no beer.”

 

[TJ Cornish]

I don’t count how many clocks I wind weekly - I don’t think I want to know the answer. Living in Minnesota, our climate changes from -20˚ to 100˚ and about 15% humidity to 90% humidity, and even with an air conditioned house, it’s a challenging place for clock accuracy.

Most of the clocks I have are fairly high grade (I have a jeweler’s regulator addiction interest), and other than usually a period in the spring and fall when the humidity swings wildly, I can keep things to within 5 seconds/week for the weight-driven clocks.

Some interesting datapoints - I have a couple mercury pendulum jewelers regulators. Both are pinwheels. I have several conventional pendulum regulators - another pinwheel and several deadbeats. My best running clock is my Gilbert 20 which currently has an escapement issue where the drops are not equal - the second hand moves noticeably farther on the tick than the tock. Even though it’s a conventional pendulum, it runs better than one of my mercury clocks, and about equal to the other.

I keep meaning to buy a Microset with temperature and humidity probes so I can tweak the mercury compensation. I think that would make a difference.

 

[Bernhard J.]

In order to obtain best compensation effect in a mercury compensation pendulum, the amount of mercury must be "tuned" to the other components of the pendulum. Too less or too much mercury will negatively affect the desired compensation effect.

Here is a historic article dealing with this, unfortunately in German.

https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/SBAWW_26_0345-0370.pdf

 

[abe]

My Lister, Jr tall case clock loses a minute and a half each week.

My 30 hour wood works Barnes and Bartholomew loses 1 minute every two days.

My Sessions Revere banjo clock is accurate until it gets near the end of the week. It loses time as the spring unwinds.

 

[wspohn]

My Atmos CAN be very accurate, but the regulating mechanism is insufficiently fine to facilitate that. There is a slight friction when you move the regulating lever and the it is easy to overshoot the degree of regulation you were shooting for.

I have one 30 day long case that I have good to plus or minus one or two minutes a month which i probably as good as it gets for the clocks I own.

 

[DeanT]

Here are photos of three located in the main workroom which I wind. The two wall clocks I use to see how well the clocks that have been recently repaired are keeping time(regulating them). The tall case is set a minute or two before the actual time here so that its bell might alert me to the impending hour. These three clocks are regulated close enough for my purposes. I reset them when I wind them once a week. Oh, yea, the dial clock above the computer keeps around one minute a week. Most of the other clocks I seldom wind, having been born under the thirteenth sign of the Zodiac, Onslow, whose main attribute is "bone idleness".
BB

View attachment 715840 View attachment 715842 View attachment 715843

Lovely longcase...is it by James Mitchell? The picture isn't too clear. I've got a bracket clock by John Mitchel of London who might be related.

 

[DeanT]

This is a month going pendule religieuse timepiece by Chauvin of Lyon dates to 1680's. It keeps time to with 15 seconds per week for 2 weeks but struggles a bit in the second fortnight so maybe it was only supposed to run for 2 weeks. Still not bad for 340 years old.