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Horological Heresy?

doc_fields

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Resized952021031795104411.jpg

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Over the years, many clock movements have come and gone across my bench. One type that always got to me was the kind that has a hole through the end post for the levers and such. I've seen some debate on here (long ago) about what to use and what not to use. The "what not" to use were tapered pins because the larger end of the pin could interfere with movement of the lever or what ever else could come into contact with it, especially when some novice doesn't trim the pin a little shorter. The other method was to take a short piece of wire, bend a hook on one end, insert the opposite end through the hole, and then bend that end.

But! In cutting that wire, you leave it sharp on both ends, and you snag your tender flesh on those sharp ends. And then, you want to try and leave that bent wire so it lays flat up against the lever or such so it looks nice and doesn't engage your flesh when you brush against it. So you install all those little bent wires on all the posts of the movement, and find out you need to remove a few of those wires a little later because of an adjustment, a problem or whatever. Tiny pieces of wires like this get lost on the bench, fall to the floor, etc. Reinstalling them can be a pain also.

I remember on some clocks there were little linchpins that held dial posts to the movement. I had saved some and decided to give it a whirl. I bought some more at an auto parts store. They are easy to put on, and to take off. when positioned properly, there should be no interference with other parts. I have never seen these used before, other than to hold dial posts to the movement.

So that is my "horological heresy". What do you think?...........................gary
 
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bruce linde

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other than aesthetics, doesn't bother me.... but, then, i'm a heretic at heart! :)
 
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wow

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Newer clocks use e-clips and Phillips screws so I would have no problem there, but old clocks?.....they would bother me.....originality?
 

doc_fields

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Newer clocks use e-clips and Phillips screws so I would have no problem there, but old clocks?.....they would bother me.....originality?
Will;
What would you do then if you wouldn't use hitchpins? Do you use the wire method I mentioned? If so, how do you do it? Just curious:) Thanks for your reply!.................gary
 

doc_fields

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Wouldn't bother me, nor does it modify anything that cannot be returned to original at a later date.

That's true!...........................gary
 

wow

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I usually use tapered pins. Just because they look original to me. I don’t use Phillips screws on old clocks and don’t use slotted screws on modern clocks as mounting screws. Why? It just bothers me:???:
 

Bruce Alexander

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Hi Gary,

Not heresy in my view. Very clever. It looks a little "clunky" but if the front of the movement is hidden behind a dial who, other than a clock smith/horologist, is going to see it? Personally I use soft brass wire in a variety of gauges. Cut to an appropriate length and bend/turn into an "S" shape with flat-nosed pliers (usually).

Mostly I use this:

Amazon.com: BRASS WIRE ROUND 22 GAUGE SOFT 1 Lb SPOOL 480 FT JEWELRY FINDINGS METAL DESIGN

which should last a very, very long time... I haven't had a problem with sharp edges in soft brass. Maybe I've just been lucky.


I think these would be great for Rack and Snail systems which might need to have the snail adjusted. My "S" wire can be a bit frustrating here and I don't like using taper pins for this purpose.

What variety of sizes do these come in? Do you have a link? If not, I'm sure Google will provide....Some of the retention holes in these posts are pretty small.

Thanks for sharing your idea.

Regards,

Bruce
 
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doc_fields

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I usually use tapered pins. Just because they look original to me. I don’t use Phillips screws on old clocks and don’t use slotted screws on modern clocks as mounting screws. Why? It just bothers me:???:
I perfectly understand!..............gary
 

JimmyOz

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Okay, let's look at this movement, it is about a 100 years old and a very nice movement. This comes to me for repair, I need to quote it.

I take the dial off, 'what the' is my 1st impression, then I look over the movement to find out what else has been altered or fixed. I call the customer and ask who repaired this clock before as it needs also needs a 'few' cosmetic repairs to bring it back to originality and if they say just fix the broken parts I say, sorry no can do, as my name will be on this and that is important to me.
 

doc_fields

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Hi Gary,

Not heresy in my view. Very clever. It looks a little "clunky" but if the front of the movement is hidden behind a dial who, other than a clock smith/horologist, is going to see it? Personally I use soft brass wire in a variety of gauges. Cut to an appropriate length and bend/turn into an "S" shape with flat-nosed pliers (usually).

Mostly I use this:

Amazon.com: BRASS WIRE ROUND 22 GAUGE SOFT 1 Lb SPOOL 480 FT JEWELRY FINDINGS METAL DESIGN

which should last a very, very long time... I haven't had a problem with sharp edges in soft brass. Maybe I've just been lucky.


I think these would be great for Rack and Snail systems which might need to have the snail adjusted. My "S" wire can be a bit frustrating here and I don't like using taper pins for this purpose.

What variety of sizes do these come in? Do you have a link? If not, I'm sure Google will provide....Some of the retention holes in these posts are pretty small.

Thanks for sharing your idea.

Regards,

Bruce
The brass wire I have is for making springs, so it is harder and sharper.

I tried looking up some of these on the internet, changing words and things, but all I got for my trouble were humongous hitchpins for trailer hitches. I went to Auto Zone, they had a pack of them, an assortment, for $4-5 bucks I think, pretty spendy, but I wanted to do this. I got 4 useful ones, and I used 4 extra I had from a Ridgeway clock............................gary
 

R. Croswell

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Doc, if it is your own clock I have no problem with the hitch pins. The next owner(s) can easily change them and no harm done. I usually use annealed brass wire or sometimes tapered pins. Sometimes hard to tell what was original, but "original" is the safest way to avoid controversy. Personally, I don't like the looks of them and would not likely use them on my clocks or clocks of my customers but have no objection if others do. Too expensive in an assortment but I feel sure some place must offer these in individual small sizes.

RC
 

svenedin

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Perhaps I am just being completely naive and ignorant but I really don’t see the advantage over a neatly trimmed taper pin. Looks unsightly too. However, if it works and it’s your clock........if I were a customer I’d be rather shocked.
 

doc_fields

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Sometimes the tolerance between the shaft, and the lever's pivoting point are very close. A tapered pin pushed in may not rub against the lever on the narrow end of the pin, but the wider end on the opposite side can rub, causing a problem. Now that is assuming the pin has been neatly trimmed and squared on both sides of the shaft. Sometimes the wider end has to be bent slightly away from the pivot part of the lever , but if the pin loosens and rotates , then it can interfere. I believe that would be the time to use soft brass or steel wire, properly bent and formed wrapping somewhat around the shaft and laying flat against the pivoting part of the lever. Now that can be aesthetically pleasing.

Actually, I'm not planning to return it to the customer this way. I did this for testing and observing that the movement has no flaws. I hate undoing them to adjust or correct something, they never are quite the same to me to use in the hole again......................gary
 

MuseChaser

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I like the idea, but I don't work on anyone else's clocks, and so far haven't come across any movement where the gain in convenience would be appreciable enough to warrant using them. Perhaps a good compromise would be to use them while doing test assemblies and adjustments, and then replacing them with whatever is most original and authentic after final assembly and prior to returning to a customer?
 

svenedin

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I like the idea, but I don't work on anyone else's clocks, and so far haven't come across any movement where the gain in convenience would be appreciable enough to warrant using them. Perhaps a good compromise would be to use them while doing test assemblies and adjustments, and then replacing them with whatever is most original and authentic after final assembly and prior to returning to a customer?
Agree. Great for testing
 

shutterbug

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I'm fine with using something like that for temporarily getting things set up and testing. But after that, I'd replace them with wire. I bend the first end, put the wire through the hole, hold it flat with a thumb while bending the other side to complete the S. That will keep it flat, too :)
 

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