High grade early Rockfords ( some Model 1 converted to Mod.2)

Kent

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Re: High grade early Rockfords

Ditto!
 

Keith R...

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Re: High grade early Rockfords

Home run in my book! I have never been a model 3 fan, but there are now 99
exceptions in the 241901 -242 range. Great work Greg! I notice you have up a
nickel example 58761 (nice one), on model 2's though, you may have any photo
rights to my nickel 58702 should you wish, in our most recent model 2 thread.

Keith
 
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darrahg

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Re: High grade early Rockfords

Keep going. I know it is a lot of work to put up but you have something good going here. Thanks for sharing your knowledge about Rockfords.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Re: High grade early Rockfords

Home run in my book! I have never been a model 3 fan, but there are now 99
exceptions in the 241901 -242 range. Great work Greg! I notice you have up a
nickel example 58761 (nice one), on model 2's though, you may have any photo
rights to my nickel 58702 should you wish, in our most recent model 2 thread.

Keith
Thanks for the use of your pic. I can't seem to figure out how to add it to the encyclopedia article.
 

Keith R...

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Re: High grade early Rockfords

Greg that's fine, it's for your use, if it ever can fit your article content or you
want to insert it, (somehow).

And I agree with Darrah!

Keith
 

Keith R...

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Re: High grade early Rockfords

Thank you kind sir. Keith

ps. I will shrink an original version and place it in my one and only album.
Done, there is a 400 x 300 in my album if you want it. Keith
 
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darrahg

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Re: Rockford model #1 with a Teske

Here is one I consider a model 1 that was converted to a m2. It has both key wind/set and stem/lever set features but with one case screw. Quite complicated compared, with an extra idler, with what they eventually used. The script B on the barrel bridge may be an indicator that Rockford was experimenting with it when developing the m2.
Greg, do you recall the reference of that early Bulletin article?
18s mdl1 7221 script B dial side.JPG 18s mdl1 7221 script B mvt 2.JPG
Darrah,

FWIW, the Rockford mvts that I've had in hand that are key/stem wind and have only one case screw have been either with Abbott's after-market attachment or a rather scarce group of factory converted model 1s (my example of the latter is at the bank so I can't post a pic or give details...the origin of these factory conv. model 1s is discussed in an old Bulletin). I'm interested in seeing the winding settings mechanisms of any model 2 mvts with only one case screw that you might have had a chance to dissect.

Thanks,

Greg
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Re: Rockford model #1 with a Teske

Here is one I consider a model 1 that was converted to a m2. It has both key wind/set and stem/lever set features but with one case screw. Quite complicated compared, with an extra idler, with what they eventually used. The script B on the barrel bridge may be an indicator that Rockford was experimenting with it when developing the m2.
Greg, do you recall the reference of that early Bulletin article?
252252.jpg 252253.jpg
Darrah,

Thanks for the pics. I would agree that what you have is a model 2 (Rockford factory stem winding mechanism) with only 1 case screw or one of the model 1 mvts that Rockford converted to stem-wind. Neat.

The "B" is also a bit odd.

I'll see if I can locate the Bulletin info on the Rockford KWs that were converted to stem-winders. BTW, my example actually winds a 12 o'clock.

Greg
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Re: Rockford model #1 with a Teske

Darrah,

I located what I think is the Bulletin info on Rockford. It is actually from the reminisces of Henry Abbott so it actually refers to Rockford KWinders being fitted with his attachment and not ones converted by the factory itself. My faulty memory at work. The Bulletin is #145.

"At this stage in proceedings, at theurgent request of many watch dealers, I designed and made winding mechanismspecially adapted for open facewatches and utilized all of the unsoldkey-wind watch movements in thestocks of dealers in the larger cities,by making them into fashionable openface watches. The Rockford WatchCcmpany got out their old tools andmade new key-winders which theysent me for conversion. Several thousalldof these converted watches weresold while other manufacturers .lveremaking tools and getting ready tomeet the demands of fickle fashion. "

Greg
 

darrahg

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Re: Rockford model #1 with a Teske

Hey, it is difficult keeping track of all pubs and references. Thanks, I will check it out.

Here is another model 2 with the same early style yoke and gearing but with a different style lever. It is marked with a block B and was perhaps another attempt at finalizing the works which, if I recall correctly, finally ended up with one less gear.
Rockford 18s mdl2 marked B 15365 unique setting lever .jpg Rockford 18s mdl2 marked B 15365  showing unique setting lever .jpg
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Re: High grade early Rockfords

I've added some interesting data on a few of these high grade Rockfords to the article. Feel free to pass along anything you might want to have included.
 

Keith R...

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Re: High grade early Rockfords

Extremely interesting Greg. Thanks to you and others for pulling this together. The historical
data is awesome as well. Keith
 

Keith R...

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Re: Rockford model #1 with a Teske

Great discussion, since I have much interest in Rockford model 2's. I wonder if our moderators
could relocate posts 7,8,9 & 10 to our last Rockford model 2 thread. This will house the most
recent discussion captured between Darrah and Gregg on these early findings for converted
model 1's to 2's. Thanks for asking and sharing these model 2 discussions Darrah & Greg.

Keith
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Re: Rockford model #1 with a Teske

Here is one I consider a model 1 that was converted to a m2. It has both key wind/set and stem/lever set features but with one case screw. Quite complicated compared, with an extra idler, with what they eventually used. The script B on the barrel bridge may be an indicator that Rockford was experimenting with it when developing the m2.
Greg, do you recall the reference of that early Bulletin article?
252252.jpg 252253.jpg
Darrah,

Re the "B" on the barrel bridge, my opinion is that Rockford was using this to help ID a particular grade. I have seen mvts with a "C" in a similar position and recall vaguely seeing one or two with an "A". Here's what I think was going on. At first, Rockford ID'd their grades by "19 Ruby Jewels, Adjusted", "15 Ruby Jewels, Adjusted", "15 Jewels, Adjusted", "15 Jewels", "11 Jewels", "9 Jewels", and "7 Jewels" and they so engraved the mvts. Then they stopped marking the jewel counts on the lower grades (11j, etc.) and so they, for a brief period, used a letter (A, B, C) to help designate them. Also, they started making, e. g., 11 jewel mvts in more than one grade, so the letters would help to differentiate these as well. Another solution to the grade ID issue was to add the word "Extra" to 11 jewel grades with some nicer features. Just my opinion. All-in-all, Rockford can be rather confusing.
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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Re: Rockford model #1 with a Teske

There were a couple of "15 R" Rockfords sighted recently, one model 6 and one model 2. So, scarce as they are, they can still be found.
 

Halda Sweden

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Hello!

Normaly I collect Euoropean watches but there is no rule without exceptions!!!

I believe this is a rather early Rockford.

Heavy silvercase; DUEBER no 1362033.

Movement with number: 9506

All information concerning this pocketwatch is of great interest.

Best rgds from Sweden

Peter:rolleyes:
 

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Greg Frauenhoff

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Peter,

Nice looking Rockford. It's a model 1 and looks to be either 11 or 15 jewels. Relatively low s/n should put it at roughly 1877-78.

Greg
 

Greg Frauenhoff

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The encyclopedia article mentioned above has lost most of its pictures. So rather than try and fix it I figure that this thread might be as good a place as any to list pictures and serial numbers of the early high grade Rockfords.

First, a bit on the models 1, 2 and 3. Model 1 are pure key wind and GENERALLY have only one case screw. Model 2 are both stem and key and GENERALLY have two case screws. Model 3 are pure stem winders.

Some model 1 mvts were converted at the factory to stem-wind. Some were converted post factory with attachments such as Abbott's. In any event, its difficult to figure out, with actually having the mvt in hand and taking it apart, a true model 2 mvt from a converted model 1. Keep this in mind.

So anyway, I have lots of data on these and will begin listing such. It might take a few days to put it all up. Feel free to add you own info, especially pictures of cool mvts.

Models 1 and 2 (15RJ = "15 Ruby Jewels", 19RJ = "19 Ruby Jewels")

S/n

1 19RJ Converted by the factory to stem-wind along with other alterations.
3 19RJ Missing original barrel bridge, fitted with Abbott's conversion
4 19RJ Probably a converted model 1.
5 19RJ Model 2.
15 19RJ Model 2.
19? 19RJ Model 1.
20 19RJ Model 1.
25 19RJ Model 1.
32 19RJ Model 1.
33 19RJ Model 1.
34 19RJ Model 1.
37 19RJ Model 1
44 "15 R" Gilt model 2 marked "M. M. Pomeroy, Denver, Col.", believed to be finished out of sequence.
44 Used on CB&Q.
45 19RJ Model 1.
52? 19RJ Model 1.
59? 19RJ Model 1.
 

Tom McIntyre

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I will be happy to fix the article for you. Give me a day or so.
 

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