Herschedes Grandfather Clock

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Turningbacktime, Apr 16, 2018.

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  1. Turningbacktime

    Turningbacktime Registered User
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    I recently purchased a Herschedes Grandfather Clock that is in pieces. I have never worked on a Westminster Chime mechanism before - only time and chime and cuckoo clocks. Since this came in pieces, I have no way of knowing where some of the gears go in order to work properly. I have put some of the pieces back together but I would like to know if this is a Herschedes (as I was told) because I cannot find any markings on the clock or the works. The only name I can find is on the face of the clock and it says Spaulding & Co. If it is a Herschedes, I would like to purchase a book that shows all of the gears and
    workings if possible. It is approximately 8 feet tall and2 feet wide. Thanks so much. Clock 1.JPG Clock 2.JPG Clock 3.JPG Clock 4.JPG Clock 5.JPG Clock 6.JPG Clock 7.JPG Clock 8.JPG
     
  2. wow

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    Your photos do not show the back plate of the movement where the logo or name usually appears. Please post a photo of that side of the movement.
     
  3. JTD

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    The OP says there are no markings on the movement.

    JTD
     
  4. Turningbacktime

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    Here's the back plate. What is OP?

    Clock 10.JPG
     
  5. Jim_Miller

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    OP refers to “ Original Poster”
     
  6. Turningbacktime

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    Thanks. I really need a repair book on schematics of Herschedes Grandfather clocks. Is there such a book? I hate to see this beautiful clock in this state.
     
  7. Jim_Miller

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    Is your clock a 5 or 9 tube. I can’t really tell from your picture. There is/was a supplier called R & M Imports who was the exclusive distributor for parts for these clocks and in their catalog they have an internal view of the gearing layout it references. 9 tube, so I'm not sure how much of a difference there is. If you don’t have access to this catalog send me a pm and I”ll scan a copy and e-al it to you
    Jim
     
  8. Turningbacktime

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    It is a 5 tube Herschedes. Have you ever heard of a book by Steven Conover? I just found it an Amazon. Amazing that they seem to have EVERYTHING! I don't know if it has the layout of the clocks but I guess it is worth a try. Thanks.
     
  9. Jim_Miller

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    I have a couple of his books, I don’t think you can go wrong with his book.
    Good luck with the project.
    Jim
     
  10. Turningbacktime

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    Thanks so much!
     
  11. R. Croswell

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    Conover's books are also available directly from his website Your source for clock repair books I haven't read his books on this clock, but I agree with Jim, Steve does a good job with his books.

    RC
     
  12. Turningbacktime

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    Thanks - I put the web site on my favorites list so I can look at all the books available.
     
  13. Time After Time

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    Conover has good books which, in my opinion, are well worth the money. I have purchased directly from him in the past. I haven't compared prices recently but they were certainly no more than outlets like Amazon. All things being equal, I prefer to purchase directly from the author but that's just me. I figure that Bezos will continue to do just fine without my 2 cents.
     
  14. brian fisher

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    #14 brian fisher, Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    since no one has posted it yet, I do not think this clock is herschede. between the moon phase on the face and the 12, there is an insignia. I can't tell in the photo exactly which one it is(it appears to be a flur de lis?), but it definitely does not appear to be a crown. also, the movement itself doesn't appear to be made by the company you think. it doesn't look right to me in several ways. I am not sure which manufacturer we are looking at here, but by process of elimination, i can say it is not Jacques/elite/mathias bauerle, it does not appear to be Winterhalder and it does not appear to be JJ Elliot. there are perhaps another handful of obscure tube movement manufacturers out there. I assume this to be one of those.

    the photos you posted aren't great from a recognition standpoint.

    with that said, still buy Steven Conover's book about repairing Herschede Tube clocks. there is a ton of universally valuable information in there. it will help you get this clock back together assuming it is not beyond your abilities.

    hopefully all the parts are present and accounted for. if anything is missing, it will be REALLY difficult to replace. R&M is indeed still out of business. I did hear from good authority that they are trying to get going again though....but I still don't think they will have parts for this clock.


    I have a fairly current thread that details a restoration of a Jacques 11 tube hall clock. there are several pictures posted of the movement taken apart. you are welcome to check it out and see if you can get some clues as to where the pieces of your puzzle fit. the good news is that all tube clock movements are perhaps 80-90% alike no matter who the manufacturer is. parts will not interchange, but you should be able to see a certain part in my photos and it will look really close to individual parts in your pile.

    that is a nice cabinet. I would say it looks to be built about 1920-1930

    please post a photo of the top third of the pendulum and also the insignia on the face I mentioned above.

    good luck. I hope you can get it going again.
     
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  15. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    here is a pic I found of an old herschede movement presumably from about the era your clock was built.

    Herschede-5-tube-Grandfather-Clock-movement-ONLY-for-_57.jpg
     
  16. Arthur Cagle

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    I don't see anything in the postings that indicates the age of the clock, but in it's later years Herschede bought it's movements from a couple of German firms including Jauch, I believe,
     
  17. Time After Time

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    #17 Time After Time, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    I think that you may be barking up the wrong tree. I could be wrong, always a good possibility, but there's nothing I see about your clock: Case, Dial/Face, Moon Dial, Movement parts that says "Herschede" to me. Having said that, putting a standard Westminster movement back together again shouldn't be that hard, given time and patience.
     
  18. brian fisher

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    #18 brian fisher, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    the lower end(non tube) clocks definitely had random German movements and were in my opinion no different than anything you could buy in a Sleigh or Howard miller. they carried the Herschede name and that was about it.

    I'm pretty sure they built their own nine tube movements from about the mid 1910's up through the end in 1983. these clocks were a matter of pride for them. I really don't know when they stopped building 5 tube clocks, but I am guessing it was several years before they closed up shop. I've never seen one newer than say the 1950's or so.
     
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  19. Time After Time

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    That's all very true Brian, but if I recall, they were still trading on their name. I don't think they were cranking out no-name clocks. Anyone who knows differently, please correct me if I'm wrong. If the OP's clock is a Herschede, there should be no question about it. The name used to mean quality, even when it didn't it was still displayed prominently.
    Regards,
    Bruce
     
  20. brian fisher

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    #20 brian fisher, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    I concur with you on all accounts bruce. they were very proud of their products.

    completely unrelated to this thread, in the late 70's to the mid 80's they did produce a few unnamed nine tube movements that were sold to companies like sleigh, miller, and colonial to put in their flagship clocks. if I recall correctly, they started back up for a short time producing movements only.

    I recently saw one of these (an a64) sell on eBay for crazy money. just the movement and face alone sold for almost 3 grand.
     
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  21. Time After Time

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    I was vaguely aware of that fact Brian. Randy Thatcher gave a presentation at one of the NAWCC meetings. It was about an hour long, as I recall, and I found it in the video archives of the Library. I think that the movements were still clearly Herschede, even if not marked/stamped as such.
    Regards,
    Bruce
     
  22. James Holloway

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    I own a 5 tube Herschede and I have worked on several. This movement does not look like the ones I have seen. It should not be hard to put together. The parts go together like most 3 train units.
     
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  23. Time After Time

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    #23 Time After Time, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    Thank you James. That was my conclusion as well. We have several 5 and 9 tube Herschede clocks, and I've worked on two which belong to customers. I believe that what the OP was told by the Seller of his clock is not "accurate". This is not a Herschede movement, and regardless of whether or not the movement was made by a "German manufacturer" in its later years (Herschede also imported German movements in its early years) as far as I know the Company Branded all of their clocks. As Brian correctly points out, Herschede did make some movements which were cased by other companies, but I don't think it manufactured said movements to the other companies' specs.

    A three train movement movement can be difficult to overhaul, especially if you don't have the opportunity to observe it in assembled/working order first. The OP has a tough job ahead. It can be complicated enough without self-correcting mechanisms which this movement may, or may not have. On top of that, we don't really know how much experience he has with Time and Strike Cuckoo Clocks. On the other hand, if he (or she) can get Cuckoo clocks running, they obviously have some serious Horological skills. :)

    My advice would be to look over this tutorial put together by one of the Forum's mentors, bangster: https://mb.nawcc.org/wiki/Chime-Clock-Basics Conover's books are very helpful too, just don't expect (or hope) to find any information specific to your mechanism in them.

    If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. We'll try to help.

    Good luck. Never hurts to have some.

    Regards,

    Bruce
     
  24. jacks61fd

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    Spaulding & Co was a retailer in Chicago, Google turned up a lot of info , but not much about movements
     
  25. Arthur Cagle

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    I just pulled a movement out of a customer's Herschede grandmother clock yesterday. Mass produced face just like that on most low end tall clocks, but with the Herschede name on it. Movement marked "Herschede", 73, Starkville, and West Germany, all of which equates with customer's statement of the clock's age. Haven't yet determined manufacturer of movement.

    According to customer, clock has been run continuously without servicing for 40 years...no apparent excessive wear visible at first glance, which I don't understand, but customer is an elderly lady, and perhaps her husband had the movement at least lubricated at times without her remembering.

    I was called since the clock was gummed up and not performing properly after being soaked at some point with spray oil which solidified. "Helpful" son-in-law responsible!
     
  26. Time After Time

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    #26 Time After Time, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    My guess would be that this is a German, high-quality movement. Looks like a beautiful case. If it is all there, I see no good reason why it can't be made whole again.

    Edit:
    Piggybacking on what Jacks had to offer, I found this informative link:
    Silver Forums at 925-1000.com

    It won't help much with your clock but it is interesting and gives one some idea of why "Spaulding" was displayed so prominently on your clock's face.

    Spaulding's was to Chicago what Tiffany's was to New York.
     
  27. Arthur Cagle

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  28. Time After Time

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    So, we're fairly certain that this is not a Herschede movement Turningbacktime. What do you plan to do?
     
  29. chimeclockfan

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    This is a Gebr. Jauch KG movement made for Herschede during the 1960s-1970s time frame. They were commonly used in many of Herschede's lower-end floor clocks and they do turn up in other brand cases. They are not to be confused with the Erhard Jauch 77 despite some passing aesthetic similarity and the same basic layout.

    A 1972 catalog illustrates a 5 tube clock, shown here: http://www.abbeyclock.com/herschede/H163.html
    (I could spend hours staring at all those catalogs.)

    As for the tubular bell chime clock originally posted, the only thing that sticks out to me is the single 'strike/silent' lever where normally there were two silencers for chimes and strike.
     
  30. Time After Time

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    Hey Justin,

    Very glad that you stopped in on this one.

    We have two 5-tube Herschede Tall Cases with a silencer for the Chimes but not the Strike. I agree with you, if the Strike can be silenced, I've always seen it paired with the option for the Chimes to be silenced as well.

    What is your best guess regarding the OP's Clock and Movement?

    Regards,

    Bruce
     
  31. Turningbacktime

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  32. Turningbacktime

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    Hi Brian - Sorry I haven't been on this site - the weather is too good and it's grass cutting season. It definitely has a flur de lis between the 12 and the moon phase. The only reason that I thought it was a Herschedes is that is what it was sold as at auction. So I guess I am in limbo as to the maker. I'll look at your site to see the photos you have. Thanks so much - Pat
     
  33. Turningbacktime

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    Here's a photo of the upper and lower part of the p
    endulum
     
  34. Turningbacktime

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    Hi - I don't know if I posted an answer on the wrong thread. The clock definitely has a flur de lis on the top and here is a photo of the pendulum top and bottom. IMG_3873.JPG IMG_3874.JPG
     
  35. Turningbacktime

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  36. JTD

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    As for the fleur-de-lis (unless it's missing from the above photos, you still haven't posted a full-on photo of the dial), it doesn't look to me (and I can't see it well) that it is anything more than a continuation of the pattern all round the dial. After, all the curlicues in the four corners are also very fleur-de-lis - ish, just on larger scale.

    But as I say, I can't see much from the side-slanted photo of the dial.

    JTD
     
  37. Turningbacktime

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    Hi Brian - I guess I'm going to take time to research all of the answers and learning sites. It seems that I have taken on quite a project that I wish whoever took it apart had taken a load of photos. There definitely are no markings of any kind of the movement. I don't believe it is a lower quality movement. So I think it will be worth the investigation.Thanks to all of you who take time to post for us. I am learning more with each post. Pat
     
  38. Turningbacktime

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  39. Turningbacktime

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    #39 Turningbacktime, Apr 19, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
    Sorry - it was a blurred photo. Sent a better one.
     
  40. Turningbacktime

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    Herschedes moon face.JPG Hi - Here's a photo of the flur de lis. It is separate from the over all scrolling work on the face.
     
  41. JTD

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    Thanks - I see it clearly now.

    JTD
     
  42. Turningbacktime

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    Here's a photo of the exact clock that was on under images on the net when I typed in 5 tube grandfather clocks. There are 2 circles in the corners just like mine and the tubes and strikers are just like mine. The only problem is that it is in the UK and the email that is listed is invaluable.co.uk and the email won't go through to ask them any questions on the clock. I'll post photos of the clock that was under images since it is all together.
    Grandfather clock.jpg
     
  43. JTD

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    I have just looked at www.invaluable.co.uk and had no difficulty viewing their clocks. They are not actually the auctioneers, they just list the clocks (and anything else) for the various auction houses that are selling and they also allow you to bid on anything when the auction is on. When you have found the clock you want, click on its image and you will get fuller details and be able to see which auction house is actually selling it. There will also be a box saying 'get more information'. To use that, you have to log in and join invaluable.co.uk but you don't have to do that. Just note the name of the auction house concerned and google them, find their website and you can email them direct.

    And, by the way, although invaluable has a uk website and address, almost all the grandfather clocks were actually being sold in USA.

    Hope this helps.

    JTD
     
  44. Turningbacktime

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  45. chimeclockfan

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    On some German movements for American export the term 'strike' may also be used for the quarter chimes. This is because in German the same loanword to denote quarter chimes or hour strike ("schlag") is one and the same. The silencer appears to be for the quarter hour chimes so with this in mind I would imagine the movement was German made and its silencer label was not formally translated for the American market.

    There were many German companies making tubular bell chime movements during the early 20th century and some were not as commonly recognized. While I cannot give a solid guess for who made this movement, some of the lesser known suppliers of tubular bell chime movements include Uhrenfabrik Muller Mulheim & Co., F. Korfhage, and Junghans.
     
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  46. Turningbacktime

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    Here's one interesting note: The brass plate that the owner removed from the clock said: "J. K. Thompson, 25th Anniversary, Arthur Anderson & Co. Presented by the Partners, August 5, 1971. This was the Anderson Accounting Firm that was in charge when Enron failed. They were found guilty of falsifying records and they had to surrender their licenses to practice. I don't know if that makes have it more or less value but it's the only thing that I know about its history. Pat
     
  47. Arthur Cagle

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    #47 Arthur Cagle, Apr 19, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2018
    Thanks, Chimeclock fan. If I'm not mistaken, G. Jauch made movements for Colonial Clock Co. until Colonial cratered.
     
  48. Time After Time

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    #48 Time After Time, Apr 19, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
    Hey Pat,

    As I understand it, "Arthur Anderson" just changed their name (not to protect the innocent) to "Accenture". Personally I had bad experiences dealing with one of their employees. Poor ethics...in my opinion. In any case, please let us know if/when you have questions. Plenty of knowledgeable folks to help. Folks like Justin are "Off the Hook" scary good! :eek:

    German engineering can be tough but you probably see a lot of it in your work with Cuckoo Clocks, no?

    Regards,

    Bruce
     
  49. Turningbacktime

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    What is the best cable for a grandfather clock and where is the best place to purchase it. I will need 25 feet of it and I assume it is .60 in diameter.
     
  50. Turningbacktime

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    Thanks Bruce - I've already assembled it and taken photos but now I need to take it apart again to clean it. I have to make a stand for it because I don't have anything to hold a clock that large. The big challenge will be getting all of the pins and strikers synchronized. Pat
     

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