Herschedes Grandfather Clock

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Turningbacktime, Apr 16, 2018 at 12:24 AM.

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  1. Turningbacktime

    Turningbacktime Registered User
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    I recently purchased a Herschedes Grandfather Clock that is in pieces. I have never worked on a Westminster Chime mechanism before - only time and chime and cuckoo clocks. Since this came in pieces, I have no way of knowing where some of the gears go in order to work properly. I have put some of the pieces back together but I would like to know if this is a Herschedes (as I was told) because I cannot find any markings on the clock or the works. The only name I can find is on the face of the clock and it says Spaulding & Co. If it is a Herschedes, I would like to purchase a book that shows all of the gears and
    workings if possible. It is approximately 8 feet tall and2 feet wide. Thanks so much. Clock 1.JPG Clock 2.JPG Clock 3.JPG Clock 4.JPG Clock 5.JPG Clock 6.JPG Clock 7.JPG Clock 8.JPG
     
  2. wow

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    Your photos do not show the back plate of the movement where the logo or name usually appears. Please post a photo of that side of the movement.
     
  3. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    The OP says there are no markings on the movement.

    JTD
     
  4. Turningbacktime

    Turningbacktime Registered User
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    Here's the back plate. What is OP?

    Clock 10.JPG
     
  5. Jim_Miller

    Jim_Miller Registered User
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    OP refers to “ Original Poster”
     
  6. Turningbacktime

    Turningbacktime Registered User
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    Thanks. I really need a repair book on schematics of Herschedes Grandfather clocks. Is there such a book? I hate to see this beautiful clock in this state.
     
  7. Jim_Miller

    Jim_Miller Registered User
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    Is your clock a 5 or 9 tube. I can’t really tell from your picture. There is/was a supplier called R & M Imports who was the exclusive distributor for parts for these clocks and in their catalog they have an internal view of the gearing layout it references. 9 tube, so I'm not sure how much of a difference there is. If you don’t have access to this catalog send me a pm and I”ll scan a copy and e-al it to you
    Jim
     
  8. Turningbacktime

    Turningbacktime Registered User
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    It is a 5 tube Herschedes. Have you ever heard of a book by Steven Conover? I just found it an Amazon. Amazing that they seem to have EVERYTHING! I don't know if it has the layout of the clocks but I guess it is worth a try. Thanks.
     
  9. Jim_Miller

    Jim_Miller Registered User
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    I have a couple of his books, I don’t think you can go wrong with his book.
    Good luck with the project.
    Jim
     
  10. Turningbacktime

    Turningbacktime Registered User
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  11. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Conover's books are also available directly from his website Your source for clock repair books I haven't read his books on this clock, but I agree with Jim, Steve does a good job with his books.

    RC
     
  12. Turningbacktime

    Turningbacktime Registered User
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    Thanks - I put the web site on my favorites list so I can look at all the books available.
     
  13. Time After Time

    Time After Time Registered User
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    Conover has good books which, in my opinion, are well worth the money. I have purchased directly from him in the past. I haven't compared prices recently but they were certainly no more than outlets like Amazon. All things being equal, I prefer to purchase directly from the author but that's just me. I figure that Bezos will continue to do just fine without my 2 cents.
     
  14. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User
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    #14 brian fisher, Apr 16, 2018 at 8:57 PM
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 9:17 PM
    since no one has posted it yet, I do not think this clock is herschede. between the moon phase on the face and the 12, there is an insignia. I can't tell in the photo exactly which one it is(it appears to be a flur de lis?), but it definitely does not appear to be a crown. also, the movement itself doesn't appear to be made by the company you think. it doesn't look right to me in several ways. I am not sure which manufacturer we are looking at here, but by process of elimination, i can say it is not Jacques/elite/mathias bauerle, it does not appear to be Winterhalder and it does not appear to be JJ Elliot. there are perhaps another handful of obscure tube movement manufacturers out there. I assume this to be one of those.

    the photos you posted aren't great from a recognition standpoint.

    with that said, still buy Steven Conover's book about repairing Herschede Tube clocks. there is a ton of universally valuable information in there. it will help you get this clock back together assuming it is not beyond your abilities.

    hopefully all the parts are present and accounted for. if anything is missing, it will be REALLY difficult to replace. R&M is indeed still out of business. I did hear from good authority that they are trying to get going again though....but I still don't think they will have parts for this clock.


    I have a fairly current thread that details a restoration of a Jacques 11 tube hall clock. there are several pictures posted of the movement taken apart. you are welcome to check it out and see if you can get some clues as to where the pieces of your puzzle fit. the good news is that all tube clock movements are perhaps 80-90% alike no matter who the manufacturer is. parts will not interchange, but you should be able to see a certain part in my photos and it will look really close to individual parts in your pile.

    that is a nice cabinet. I would say it looks to be built about 1920-1930

    please post a photo of the top third of the pendulum and also the insignia on the face I mentioned above.

    good luck. I hope you can get it going again.
     
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  15. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User
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    here is a pic I found of an old herschede movement presumably from about the era your clock was built.

    Herschede-5-tube-Grandfather-Clock-movement-ONLY-for-_57.jpg
     
  16. Arthur Cagle

    Arthur Cagle Registered User

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    I don't see anything in the postings that indicates the age of the clock, but in it's later years Herschede bought it's movements from a couple of German firms including Jauch, I believe,
     
  17. Time After Time

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    #17 Time After Time, Apr 17, 2018 at 9:24 AM
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018 at 9:48 AM
    I think that you may be barking up the wrong tree. I could be wrong, always a good possibility, but there's nothing I see about your clock: Case, Dial/Face, Moon Dial, Movement parts that says "Herschede" to me. Having said that, putting a standard Westminster movement back together again shouldn't be that hard, given time and patience.
     
  18. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User
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    #18 brian fisher, Apr 17, 2018 at 9:06 PM
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018 at 9:15 PM
    the lower end(non tube) clocks definitely had random German movements and were in my opinion no different than anything you could buy in a Sleigh or Howard miller. they carried the Herschede name and that was about it.

    I'm pretty sure they built their own nine tube movements from about the mid 1910's up through the end in 1983. these clocks were a matter of pride for them. I really don't know when they stopped building 5 tube clocks, but I am guessing it was several years before they closed up shop. I've never seen one newer than say the 1950's or so.
     
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  19. Time After Time

    Time After Time Registered User
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    That's all very true Brian, but if I recall, they were still trading on their name. I don't think they were cranking out no-name clocks. Anyone who knows differently, please correct me if I'm wrong. If the OP's clock is a Herschede, there should be no question about it. The name used to mean quality, even when it didn't it was still displayed prominently.
    Regards,
    Bruce
     
  20. brian fisher

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    #20 brian fisher, Apr 17, 2018 at 9:22 PM
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018 at 9:28 PM
    I concur with you on all accounts bruce. they were very proud of their products.

    completely unrelated to this thread, in the late 70's to the mid 80's they did produce a few unnamed nine tube movements that were sold to companies like sleigh, miller, and colonial to put in their flagship clocks. if I recall correctly, they started back up for a short time producing movements only.

    I recently saw one of these (an a64) sell on eBay for crazy money. just the movement and face alone sold for almost 3 grand.
     
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  21. Time After Time

    Time After Time Registered User
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    I was vaguely aware of that fact Brian. Randy Thatcher gave a presentation at one of the NAWCC meetings. It was about an hour long, as I recall, and I found it in the video archives of the Library. I think that the movements were still clearly Herschede, even if not marked/stamped as such.
    Regards,
    Bruce
     
  22. James Holloway

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    I own a 5 tube Herschede and I have worked on several. This movement does not look like the ones I have seen. It should not be hard to put together. The parts go together like most 3 train units.
     
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  23. Time After Time

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    #23 Time After Time, Apr 18, 2018 at 4:02 AM
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018 at 4:12 AM
    Thank you James. That was my conclusion as well. We have several 5 and 9 tube Herschede clocks, and I've worked on two which belong to customers. I believe that what the OP was told by the Seller of his clock is not "accurate". This is not a Herschede movement, and regardless of whether or not the movement was made by a "German manufacturer" in its later years (Herschede also imported German movements in its early years) as far as I know the Company Branded all of their clocks. As Brian correctly points out, Herschede did make some movements which were cased by other companies, but I don't think it manufactured said movements to the other companies' specs.

    A three train movement movement can be difficult to overhaul, especially if you don't have the opportunity to observe it in assembled/working order first. The OP has a tough job ahead. It can be complicated enough without self-correcting mechanisms which this movement may, or may not have. On top of that, we don't really know how much experience he has with Time and Strike Cuckoo Clocks. On the other hand, if he (or she) can get Cuckoo clocks running, they obviously have some serious Horological skills. :)

    My advice would be to look over this tutorial put together by one of the Forum's mentors, bangster: https://mb.nawcc.org/wiki/Chime-Clock-Basics Conover's books are very helpful too, just don't expect (or hope) to find any information specific to your mechanism in them.

    If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. We'll try to help.

    Good luck. Never hurts to have some.

    Regards,

    Bruce
     
  24. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    Spaulding & Co was a retailer in Chicago, Google turned up a lot of info , but not much about movements
     
  25. Arthur Cagle

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    I just pulled a movement out of a customer's Herschede grandmother clock yesterday. Mass produced face just like that on most low end tall clocks, but with the Herschede name on it. Movement marked "Herschede", 73, Starkville, and West Germany, all of which equates with customer's statement of the clock's age. Haven't yet determined manufacturer of movement.

    According to customer, clock has been run continuously without servicing for 40 years...no apparent excessive wear visible at first glance, which I don't understand, but customer is an elderly lady, and perhaps her husband had the movement at least lubricated at times without her remembering.

    I was called since the clock was gummed up and not performing properly after being soaked at some point with spray oil which solidified. "Helpful" son-in-law responsible!
     
  26. Time After Time

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    #26 Time After Time, Apr 18, 2018 at 11:37 AM
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018 at 12:04 PM
    My guess would be that this is a German, high-quality movement. Looks like a beautiful case. If it is all there, I see no good reason why it can't be made whole again.

    Edit:
    Piggybacking on what Jacks had to offer, I found this informative link:
    Silver Forums at 925-1000.com

    It won't help much with your clock but it is interesting and gives one some idea of why "Spaulding" was displayed so prominently on your clock's face.

    Spaulding's was to Chicago what Tiffany's was to New York.
     
  27. Arthur Cagle

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  28. Time After Time

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    So, we're fairly certain that this is not a Herschede movement Turningbacktime. What do you plan to do?
     
  29. chimeclockfan

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    This is a Gebr. Jauch KG movement made for Herschede during the 1960s-1970s time frame. They were commonly used in many of Herschede's lower-end floor clocks and they do turn up in other brand cases. They are not to be confused with the Erhard Jauch 77 despite some passing aesthetic similarity and the same basic layout.

    A 1972 catalog illustrates a 5 tube clock, shown here: http://www.abbeyclock.com/herschede/H163.html
    (I could spend hours staring at all those catalogs.)

    As for the tubular bell chime clock originally posted, the only thing that sticks out to me is the single 'strike/silent' lever where normally there were two silencers for chimes and strike.
     
  30. Time After Time

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    Hey Justin,

    Very glad that you stopped in on this one.

    We have two 5-tube Herschede Tall Cases with a silencer for the Chimes but not the Strike. I agree with you, if the Strike can be silenced, I've always seen it paired with the option for the Chimes to be silenced as well.

    What is your best guess regarding the OP's Clock and Movement?

    Regards,

    Bruce
     

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