Help Herschede Grandfather Chime & Strike Problems.

[Shea]

I just recently purchased a Herschede 227 Traflagar. Yes, one of their "junk" clocks but she was beautiful and I couldn't resist the price tag. It looks *almost* like the Whittier but with rods rather than tubes.
It appears to have been purchased new in 1972 and has been well cared for. Not hardly a scratch on her. Receipts dated every few years for maintenance until 2016, including a complete overhaul on the movement in 2014.
The movement is marked "Herschede Starkville No (0) Jewels P.L. 78 cm West Germany 5 71". Then there is a box on the lower left that reads "60-500/Ke/E"
I know the clock needs serviced, unfortunately I don't have anyone nearby and would have to send it off somewhere. Until then, I have an issue I would like to describe and see if anyone has a suggestion for what I might look for.
The clock keeps time perfectly, however, it refuses to chime on the first 1/4 hour if I don't jiggle the strike weight. If it misses that 1st chime, the rest of the chimes don't play out either, nor the strike.
After the clock chimes and strikes at the top of the hour, it seems something is not resetting. If I jiggle the strike weight at some point between the top of the hour and the 1st 1/4 hour chime, it runs perfectly until after the next chime/strike at the next hour. Basically, to keep the chime and strike running, I have to gently jiggle the strike weight at around 10 after the hour.
It has a 8lb weight on the chime train and two 6 lb weights for the time and strike trains.
Any ideas as to what might be going wrong after the strike?
Thanks!

 

[bruce linde]

ok, so i'm not going to google to see what a trafalgar or whittier looks like... providing photos with posts is strongly recommended.

three-weight chime clocks require lots of little setup tweaks... after servicing... if you want them to run correctly. not sure what you mean by 'jiggle the strike weight'... the weight should be hanging from brass or braided nylon cord and jiggling it should do nothing. if you really want to see what's going on, pull the hands and then the dial, replace the hands and run with the dial off... you will start to see how the thing works and might be able to see what's going on.

steven conover has a book on 'chime clock repair' you might also want to check out.

 

[Shea]

My apologies, I didn't realize I needed to show a photo of the clock case to troubleshoot a glitch with the movement.
I have pulled the dial and watched the clock run, but without knowing what is SUPPOSED to be happening, I don't know what isn't happening.
I suppose I should have looked for youtube videos showing proper operation of a clock to help see what mine isn't doing properly, my bad.
The weights are in fact hanging on brass chains, and the jiggling of the one on the strike side is apparently jarring the problem back into place.
Again, my apologies for looking for suggestions on a clock forum. Off to youtube.....

 

[bruce linde]

you obviously didn't like my response, but that doesn't make me wrong.

your clock is a three-train movement... one for time, one for strike, one for chiming. most of the striking and chiming stuff happens in front of the front plate... and set up is crucial. dealing with wear is crucial. having parts cleaned and serviced is crucial. that's broad brush generic info.

for more specific (and helpful) comments people need to see photos and videos of your clock being put through it's paces. without seeing what you're looking at, how the heck is anyone supposed to offer anything less generic than 'you probably want to have it serviced before worrying about things that only work correctly once it's been serviced'. in the late 1800s seth thomas had over 800 employees kicking out 10,000+ clocks a month... and that's just one manufacturer. there are a zillion clocks out there and an infinite number of variations. the details matter.

there's a 'please post photos and videos' message on all new posts, as well as a reminder at the top of the 'quick reply' message box at the bottom of each thread (like the one you just used to reply). those messages are targeted at helping you get the best response by helping you share what you're seeing.

expecting people to know or recognize your clock model isn't the issue. you could have one that someone jacked around, or that is missing a crucial piece. something could be bent... who knows? there are lots of educated eyes here... including many senior professional clock repairers. sure, check out youtube... but you could also use these forums as intended by providing photos and video... and might even get the answers you seek.

p.s.: didn't know you'd pulled the dial and looked inside... but would have had you uploaded video of same. also hard to imagine how jiggling a weight chain would affect anything... a video showing how that's happening would also help inform the discussion. without, it's all conjecture.

 

[Willie X]

What Bruce said. Not unusual for even the factory information to be incorrect.

You likely have a Jauch movement there but a photo of the movement, front and back, will tell the tale for sure. Two photos = 2000 words. Ha

WIllie X

 

[shutterbug]

I'm curious. When you wiggle that strike side, does it strike? Does it appear that the strike is not finishing? There's a lever that runes from the chime side to the strike side. It holds the strike in readiness until the chime ends. If that lever does not fall completely down again, the chime will not start on the next warning run.

 

[R&A]

This sort of thing happens with used clocks when they need to cleaned and overhauled

 

[Shea]

Hi Shutterbug

It appears that it is the lifting arm? Not sure that is what it's called.
The arm lifts up just before the chime, it does drop down when it is supposed to chime, but not all the way.
It doesn't strike when I would jiggle the weight but it would chime.
Apparently the slightest movement [jiggle weight] would allow the lever to fall all the way down.
While running the clock without the face on, when that lever drops down to start the chime, all I have to do is barely touch the lever with a toothpick and it will fall the rest of the way and chime like it is supposed to.

 

[shutterbug]

Good, we have the issue isolated. Take that e-clip off and remove that lever. Clean the hole up really good as well as the post it sits on. Don't add any oil. Try it out and let us know how it goes.

 

[Shea]

Remove e-clip?
I am quite certain I have e-clip fairies watching my every move, lying in wait for me to remove one.
I didn't see an e-clip on the end of that lever, there is one on the chime shut off attached to that lever. Can you tell from this photo if there is a clip missing?
Anyway, it turns out that I don't need to remove it as the problem was with that little nut I have circled. It was so loose I'm surprised it hadn't fallen off.
Tightened it up and she is running like a champ now.
I need to get her cleaned and oiled still, but I am happy that it wasn't a more serious problem.
Thanks!

 

[kinsler33]

Apparently someone else has been working on your movement. The little nut you circled looks like it holds a movement post in place, and may or may not be the underlying problem. They typically do not loosen on their own.

Photographs are fundamental, and I'm afraid that yours have inadequate lighting. Your movement is also somewhat unusual: it resembles that of a modern cuckoo clock due to its large, stamped-steel levers.

Note that the make and model of a clock generally isn't of much help, for clock makers bought movements from everywhere and tended to install whichever movement that was cheap and plentiful. Or, to summarize, you're not working with General Motors and Delco here: nobody's going to know which particular lever was used in some particular clock, and if a part must be replaced it's generally easiest to manufacture it yourself.

The e-clip in question holds several levers in place in your movement and appears in the first of your two photographs. They're difficult to handle and easy to lose, but are used extensively on more modern clocks. If you intend to pursue this sort of activity you'll want some spares; Timesavers has them.

Generally if a clock responds to rattling the difficulty is due to oil and dirt that have solidified in pivots.

M Kinsler

 

[Shea]

Yes, the movement has been worked on, as I stated in my OP it was overhauled in 2014.

Also noted in the OP, the movement is stamped "Herschede Starkville No (0) Jewels P.L. 78 cm West Germany 5 71"
I am assuming the 5 71 is the month and year of manufacture. I have seen multiple movements identical to this one with the exception of that month and year stamp. I'm fairly certain that this is not from some modern cuckoo clock, but is one of the actual movements as acquired by Herschede from Western Germany after their move to Starkville and was used in most of their non-tubular clocks. But, in my limited knowledge, it is entirely possible that Herschede also made cuckoo clocks that I am unfamiliar with and this movement may have come from one of them. Everything I know about Herschede could be contained in that tiny little nut I tightened.

Tightening that nut has remedied the problem. Apparently it being loose allowed enough play to prevent the chime lever from dropping completely down.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[kinsler33]

The factory is still there, but now they make electric trolling motors for fishermen. Starkville is home to Mississippi State University, one of the many unsung pockets of intellectual power in that part of the country. Natalie and I lived there for four years, earning doctorates in finance and electrical engineering, respectively. Marvelous place, excellent food (bbq, etc.) and nice people. And a five-story-tall clear span artificial lightning laboratory where I did my research. (And blew a hole in the floor, much to their delight.) We'd still be there had there been any jobs for us, but wise universities seldom hire their own, which is good.

Mark Kinsler