Please ID this Clock Herschede clock

Salsagev

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Hi,
Today I have acquired a herschede 10 clock. Supposedly it has a chime called “cantubury”. Is this a good clock? It doesn't chime correctly because the movement seems sticky. How much is this worth? Any idea how old this is? (Bruce Linde, I hope this is better find). Thanks in advance.

AA1E1B4C-F381-4C4E-94E2-9616700E9E30.jpeg 10F09B74-CFD9-40A6-B1DB-CF96EA79C545.jpeg 9AAD1F70-FF97-4A34-B1E2-8E6E78C893A2.jpeg E7DD7317-3CED-44FE-BB11-DB1CD3F3A17F.jpeg E49A234E-CE99-4452-B419-056A177E3154.jpeg E02E44C8-469B-44B5-B773-3C6540508A92.jpeg FF1B3802-3DB8-43C7-A199-2D585B3F7AC0.jpeg 7E4CF82D-B54A-4FB3-AAAB-EDAF550354AF.jpeg
 
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bruce linde

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dude, you only have to please yourself... that said, any day that includes a new clock is a good day! :)

if the dial stuff is engraved, you might consider re-silvering the dial.... the numbers might screw on and allow prying off, and you could re-wax the engravings pretty easily.

don't know about Herschedes but others will....

also, you can make sure people you mention see your posts by typing an 'at' sign (@) and the first few letters of their handle.... you should get a dropdown list of matching members from which you can select your person.... they should then get alerted even if they aren't already watching a particular forum or thread.... i.e., Salsagev
 

new2clocks

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Hi,
Today I have acquired a herschede 10 clock. Supposedly it has a chime called “cantubury”. Is this a good clock? It doesn't chime correctly because the movement seems sticky. How much is this worth? Any idea how old this is? (Bruce Linde, I hope this is better find). Thanks in advance.

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You can peruse the following website for Herchede clocks:

Herschede Clock Company

Although the website lists Herschede serial numbers and the year of manufacture, there appears to be a gap from S/N 38400 to S/N 79101. If Herschede were sequential in their serial numbers, then it is reasonable to assume your clock (with a serial number in the 55000s) was made in either the year 1926 or 1927. Others may know more.

Regards.
 

brian fisher

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yes, this is probably one of the best clocks you have posted to date. especially since it plays a tune in addition to westminster.
 

chimeclockfan

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Herschede's dual chime Model 10 mantel clocks span between 1926-1933 and were a development of the original Model 10 which had just Westminster chimes. The worn dial silvering likely occurred when the clock was being silenced on/off frequently by a previous owner. Canterbury chime on six rods was a Herschede exclusive, these Model 10 mantel clocks have great sounding chimes. This is a high-grade clock and easily the best clock you've posted so far. It's worth having it restored.
 
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Isaac

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This is better than my Odo?
Yes, this is more collectable and better quality than your ODO clock. The model 10 features solid pinions, thick plates, and as mentioned before the Symphony chime rods. The option to play Canterbury chimes instead of just Westminster also adds value.
 

Salsagev

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Yes, this is more collectable and better quality than your ODO clock.
Uh ohh, I am very fond of the Odo but now has been beaten by Herschede model 10. What French chimer is better quality than this?
 

chimeclockfan

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Some may prefer a French Vedette with Frere Jacques chimes, others will say there is no better chime than Herschede. Others may prefer a spicy chicken sandwich to either clock.

The Herschede chime rod block was covered under the following patent, which explains how it all works in great detail:
US1455024A - Chime-rod holder for clocks - Google Patents
 

chimeclockfan

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100 dollars is very good for a Herschede mantel clock, they regularly sell for upwards of 300 dollars and sometimes much more if the clock's been restored. The less money you spend on a clock's purchase, the more you can save up for its restoration. Another interesting aspect of the Herschede Model 10s from 1926-1933 is they run for 14 days instead of the more common 8 day cycle.

Culver's spicy chicken was the best.
 
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Salsagev

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I will have to give that a try.

now I have model 20 and 10 herschede in just one week!

110$ for 2 herschedes. Are the striking ones worth anything?

I was winding the clock when the spring suddenly stopped winding and now doesn’t turn. Is this normal?
 

chimeclockfan

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Herschede's striking mantel clocks are usually not seen as valuable compared to the chime models, but they still go for higher prices compared to striking clocks from other American companies.
The spring may be fully wound, this is the only reason it would normally stop turning. Herschede used geared arbors on the Model 10, with the winding arbors being separate from the spring barrel arbors.
 

Isaac

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To compliment what CCF said, the model 20 only uses 1 geared winding arbor, which is strictly for the chiming train only. The time and strike train mainsprings are directly wound.

I would add however that Herschede T&S movements are a notch above the competition in the fact that they have solid rear plates as well as solid pinions.

Very good finds! Enjoy them.
 
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Salsagev

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This is better than the Hermle movement? The chime switcher doesn't change correctly to westminister. Why is that? Is that serial number in the back a production number? Is this a rare clock?
 

Molson3003

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Nice clock.

I would restore it, and keep it in your private collection. The chimes will not disappoint, and it is great that they are canterbury.

This is a high quality clock made by Americans, which competed, and in many cases surpassed the competition.

Politics, greed, labor unions, and high cost of living have put an end to mass produced American clocks.

We should be aware and reminded that there was however a day when America made great clocks.

I am confident that America is still capable, and that the day will come again when the best products are made in America.

That clock should be restored to it’s former glory and cherished, regardless of what someone is willing to pay for it.

If you are going to remove the raised numerals for cleaning, be very careful, they are very brittle.
 
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Dave T

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The dial looks good except for around the 3 area. I'd try a little alum paste on a cotton ball and apply it gingerly. I think that procedure might brighten it up some.
 

JTD

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Is that a cross-head screw that seems to be holding the hands on?

JTD
 

Bruce Alexander

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greed, labor unions
Herschede busted up their labor union with a sudden and sneaky relocation from Ohio to Mississippi. Didn't save them, did it?

Is that a cross-head screw that seems to be holding the hands on?

JTD
I noticed that as well. It might be a significant sign of condition. Hopefully not.
 
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Bruce Alexander

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I thought that looked weird but it’s on the other herschede too.
If the screws get lost, or stripped, they are not easily sourced but one can find them with a little patience and persistence. When you see Phillips Head fasteners in antique (roughly pre-1940) clocks, it's usually a fairly good indication that someone was in a hurry and just used whatever was on hand to "get 'er done". We all want to reach for on-hand inventory, but if you don't have what is called for you should either source and order it or make it yourself. When I see these fasteners, I hope that whoever placed them didn't do much.

That said, you probably got a good price, even using today's market as your standard.

Edit: Speaking of Labor Unions, happy Labor Day everyone!
 
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Salsagev

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When you see Phillips Head fasteners in antique (roughly pre-1940) clocks, it's usually a fairly good indication that someone was in a hurry
I see what you mean.

right now I am missing one of the “tubular” screws that hold the bezel in place. Any idea where I can get that?


This clock is extremely loud for it size. And it’s very heavy too, maybe even heavier than the Thomas Thompion.

So herschede clocks are the best for in the world?

Btw, this clock was listed for 50 but then raised because of lots of interest. But I jumped on it quickly since it has a “new” clock tune. I like different tunes besides the “standards”. Are you sure 17 hammer ma Normandië clock is more impressive?
 

Isaac

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This is better than the Hermle movement? The chime switcher doesn't change correctly to westminister. Why is that? Is that serial number in the back a production number? Is this a rare clock?
Yes, these movements are much better than Hermle movements.

In regards to switching the chimes, check to see if the flat brass spring on the end of the chime barrel's arbor isn't bent and is allowing for the barrel to move back and forth freely. It could be that someone put the pin drum back on in such a way that one of the pins is preventing the drum from properly shifting over.
 

Bruce Alexander

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right now I am missing one of the “tubular” screws that hold the bezel in place. Any idea where I can get that?
No, sorry. In that situation I would need to fabricate one in the shop.

"Best in the world" will cost you some serious money.
 

Salsagev

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As requested:
enjoy


Could someone expand in serial numbers and production quantities please?

I will get back to you on the chime selection problem soon Isaac.

Would someone here be able to machine the screw?
 

chimeclockfan

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You could see if a machinist can make a new screw, using the existing one as a guide.
 

Bruce Alexander

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Yeah, a machinist could knock a couple out for you with no trouble but at what cost?

I could turn one out of brass for you without too much trouble but I think the originals are made from steel. I'm also not sure I have the right tap for the required thread count.

They are called Sleeve Nuts. Search the Internet. Maybe you'll find a replacement. You can also keep an eye on eBay.
 

chimeclockfan

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Really trying not to scream but I had a couple spare nuts hanging around for a while - had to send them and other parts away in a rush due to a short-notice move. Really wish these clocks were more popular in this group, there's so little discussion about Herschede's mantel clocks compared to the Starkville-era longcases. Look around for 'screw nuts' and you may be able to find something that works.
 

new2clocks

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Curiosity.
With respect to serial numbers, they were primarily internal controls by the company. Perhaps they would be useful in any warranty complaints, but other than that, they were internal controls.

When the clock companies produced their clocks, the clocks were utilitarian objects. I seriously doubt that anyone in the management of these companies had the foresight to envision a group of antique collectors 100 to 150 years later obsessing over serial numbers and the date that an object was produced.

This, along with destruction of company information (done in the normal course of business. world wars, etc.) is a reason why today the information on dating clocks has been a retrospective "piecing of the puzzle" based on limited available information.

With respect to production quantities, these too were primarily internal information for which there is little available information today. Today, we might expect this type of information to be published in annual financial statements, but most of these companies were not publicly traded entities and had no legal requirement to report this information to the public. And, if they were publicly traded, the reporting requirements were not as stringent then as today. We can make educated guesses on how many clock movements were made in a particular period, but there are limitations in determining production quantities. We can only attempt to guess how many movements were sold, not necessarily produced, how many were waste, destroyed or left in some warehouse prior to a company going out of business, etc. This is an inexact science and the best we can do today is make an educated guess.

Regards.
 
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Bruce Alexander

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Justin got me thinking. I actually do have a spare in my bone yard. The slot is a little chewed up but not too bad if you use the right-sized screwdriver. I have a small slot file so I can dress it up a little too.

These Sleeve Nuts *are* made from brass and have a 3/48 thread. I have that tap so I could fabricate a replacement if I ever need to do so in the future.

Also, I think that the screw that holds in the hands is a 1/64 too, but I'm not absolutely sure of that..

If you want brass sleeve nut spare, you can have it for postage. Just send your contact info via Conversation and we'll take it from there.

Bruce
 
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heifetz17

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There’s a clock very similar to this in a local antique shop, but it’s a striking clock rather than a chiming one, priced at $275. I eyeball it almost every weekend, but I’m not willing to spend quite that much on it, although it looks like the price isn’t exactly out of line. It really boils down to what someone is willing to pay. It’s been there for over a year now, and I check regularly to see if the price ever drops.
 

Salsagev

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I have seen some go for lower in a as is condition.
 

Bruce Alexander

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I believe it’s from the ‘20s. I’d make an offer on it, but he’s not likely to accept an offer of $90 when he has it priced as high as it is.
You could mention that you've had your eye on the clock for about a year now and ask for his/her best price. Then take it or leave it. I think to just offer some low-ball price out of the blue might be insulting. If you're interested, I have to assume that the clock must at least appear to be in good condition. What can you tell us about it?
 

brian fisher

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i generally find that antique shops are terrible places to find good deals on clocks unless they are broken or otherwise in non working condition. the person selling the clock in the shop already found the good deal. they are generally trying to turn the item around and squeeze every last dollar out of the poor thing. the herschede mantle that heifetz mentions above seems to be the perfect example of this. i would agree that a strike only herschede mantle is probably only worth around 100 bucks tops. now, as a counterpoint, the example that salsa found: there will be some dingleberry on ebay trying to sell a clock like that in good working and serviced condition for like 600 bucks. even so...in serviced condition, that one is probably worth at least half that.
 

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