Herschede 5 tube

Rancher

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I was given a 5 tube Herschede floor clock. I thik it is a petite model swan neck top about 78 inches tall. The clock was presented to Houston Natural Gas Company in 1938 for their success in selling Servel Refrigerrators. It appears to be complete. My friend a former executive with HNG was given the clock when he retired. It has been in his office since the late 1980's. It has been running in his office but stricking right. I got it home and got it set up and it ran fine for about 24 hours then stopped. It appears that the brass cabels are crossed from the move. Neither the strike nor the chime functioned. Looking at the drums from the toped the cables are clearly crossed on both drums. Is there a way to clear the jam with our removing the movement. The other puzzelment is that the serial number on the moveemnt is 216xxx which acording the serial number lists would indicate a 1964 movement. I suppose the movement coulld have been exchanged in the last 80 years it is and I suppose it would have originally had a nice heavy plate movement that that should have been repairable after 30 years of use. Are the serial number list reliable and is there anything else that would distingush a 38 movement from a 64 movement. It is is 3 weight movement with about a 30 pound weight on the chime side and approximatley 10 pound weights on the time and strike trains. Your help would be appreciated. Bob
 

paradise

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Jun 24, 2007
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If you can manage to see into the movement between the plates and can see the click stop on the takeup spool you should be able to use a long thin object like a scribe or some such to push on the click allowing the spool to turn freely.First remove the weights, all you have to do at that point is pull on the cable till it is just about all the way out, release the click making sure it goes back in the proper place, put the weights back on and just roll it back up. The cable should fall into the proper grooves as it rolls back up.
Use a gentle touch to move the click only far enough to disengage from the teeth allowing the spool to turn and not so far as to pull it away from the spring. It would help if you had a clear visual shot at it so you could see just how far to go but if not you will have to just be very slow and careful.
Good luck.
 

Rancher

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Paraadise I tried to use a long dental tool to lift the cables up and over but couldn't I did not see the click looking from above is it between the plates or in front of the front plate? I am going to need something longer than what I found at so far. Bob
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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Ranc,

A good trick is to replace the regular weight with one that weighs about 1 1/2 pounds. Use a thin screwdriver to release the click while holding the crank with the other hand. Work the cable downward, if it jams try a bamboo skewer to redistribute the coils on the drum and try again.

These clocks are so big this operation can usually be done without removing the movement. Be sure to check for fraying, especially where the cable goes into the drum.

Willie X
 

paradise

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Yeah sometimes the click happens to be at a place where no matter what you try you cant get at it. What I do then is on the time train I remove the escapement or on the chime or strike train I will just keep setting it to run and keep doing it several times till I can reach the click. As Willie X said most of this stuff can be done without removing the works from the case. I know it sounds like a little much but ya gotta fix it.
Using a light weight with a hand on the crank is a good method but I still feel more comfortable with no weight at all. It eliminates the possibility of causing damage in the event of a slip; but its always best to use a method that you feel most comfortable with.
 

Rancher

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Thanks I will keep looking but so far I have not been able tyo see the click. I like the small weight idea. I am looking into the clock from the rear and on a ladder so I am looking down from the rear. I can feel what I assume is a maintaining power pawl when I reach aroung inside the drum. Has anyone seen a good set of pictures of the three train 5 tube movment?
 

harold bain

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Rancher

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Harold thanks I had seen the pictures but did not look at them close enough. They do eliminate the question about the click being out side the plate. Still can't see it from the inside. Unfortunatel I typed the serial number like I want it to be not as it is. The correct number is 612xxx which from the tables you listed make it a 1964 movement.The more I look at the movement the more I think that may be right. The dial plate is not very thick my guess is a 1938 plate would have had a heaver plate on the dial. I have two older tall case clocks a Colonial W&H movement from about 1910 and a German LFS from about 1900 and both have thicker dials. I agree with your thought about having it repaired I am just trying to see if will run as is if the cables are straight. I am still puzzeled about why the movement would have been replaced after 56 years or so rather than being repaired. The clock has a full seconds beat pendulum and maintaing power would that have been typical for a 1938 Herschede?
 

Richard T.

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Pictures of the case and movement would help in giving opinions as to age etc......I doubt that the movement would have been replaced. Sometimes the facts get somewhat distorted after many tellings.........Written documentation is one of the best methods of verifying information about the history of clocks or many other things.

Is this a German made Herschede movement? They did start using German movements sometime after they moved to Starkville, MS. I don't remember the exact date( late 60's early 70's??). If so, these had thinner plates and were of (in my opinion) lesser quality.

Keep us posted and let us see some photos.

Best,

Richard T.
 

Rancher

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Richard thanks I will try to get some pictures to morrow. The movement itself has heavy plates and looks well made. The dial is what looks a little light to me. The only mark I have found so far is a crown and the 612xxx on the back plate in the middle of the bottom. The dial also has the crown. The seconds beat pendulum, maintaining power etc give one the feeling of quality. I assume it is a American Made movement. Are there any consistant case marks to look for? Bob
 

harold bain

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I guess it is possible that Herschede would have supplied a new movement in 1964. As to why the original wouldn't have been repaired, we will never know for sure. I'm not sure if Herschede continued to serial number their later German made movements.
As Richard says, some pictures may help clear up dating issues.
 

Richard T.

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Sorry, I thought the plates were what was in question. I do know that there were several different dials and the quality may have been a little different, depending on which one was selected when the clock was assembled/bought.

Sounds like the movement is made by Herschede and the dating information that was referenced is considered accurate. Some Herschede clocks had a gold colored foil sticker inside the door, bottom center. This had the model number etc.

You might check for that. I'm not aware of any other special markings on the cases. Often, the style and materials of the case give a clue as to model, dating etc....

The dial shown is on my nine tube No. 294 Haverford. It has gold plated filigree in the dial center and the spandrel corners.

Best,

Richard T.
 

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Rancher

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Richard here are some pictures. The case is 79" with the finial attached by 19' wide by 13" deep. The wording on the placque indicates it is arecognition award for selling Serval Gas Referigerators in the second quarter of 1938. I will get pictures of the movement later. Bob
H clock.jpg

H Dial.jpg

H Pendulum.jpg
 

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Rancher

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Richard here are the other photos. I did find a number on the case it is an 8 over 217 and is on the back of the case. The movement is pictured from the back and from the top. You will note that on one of the views of the back that there is a frame around the opening to the movement. I assume that this is to be removed to take the movement out the back of the case. I tried to get a picture of the mark on the movement but could not. It is a simple crown over the serial number. In Tran's longcase book on page 249 there is a more detailed crown over Herschede and Cincinnati on page 253 is what I am calling the simple Crown with no company or city. Do we know when they sarted using the simplier logo? Would they have used this logo with imported movments? Thanks for your help. Bob
 

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Richard T.

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Hello Bob,

Thanks for the additional photos. I don't have a lot more to add. I don't know what the numbers on the back of the clock case mean and haven't been able to identify the model of the clock yet.

The movement is not an imported movement but one made by Herschede. This is indicated by the fact that it was made in 1931 and the overall appearance of the movement. Some of these are very hard to get out of the case and you usually have to study it and determine how it comes out. The frame indicated in your last photo would have had a fabric insert that is used to keep out dust and allow the chime sound to get out.

The presentation plaque is a good thing and does document the history of the clock.

Best,

Richard T.
 

Rancher

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Richard I dropped 217 into google thinking it might be a modle number. I got several hits and it appeas that 217 is the modle number. It's About Time in Portland Or has one and there is one on the NAWCC's 4 sale site. It appears that they used the modle for a number of years with minor changes. The 8 might be a year code. Maybe someone knows. Bob
 

Rancher

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Thanks for all the help. The clock is now running holding beat and beating with in about 3to5 bph of its standard. Still have a little chime/strike problem but will let that go until it has run a few days. Bob
 

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