Hermle?

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by shimmystep, Nov 8, 2012.

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  1. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

    Mar 5, 2012
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    This is a friends clock which had stopped. Soon as I picked it up I could see why; the hands were catching each other, none the less she asked me to give it a clean and a service. Is this a later Hermle? no marks, just 'made in West Germany'. Any dating known? Thanks in advance.

    Another thing I noticed straight away was the large solder blobs, circled in pic 3.

    IMAG1387.jpg IMAG1388.jpg IMAG1390.jpg
     
  2. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    #2 soaringjoy, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
    Well, yes, Hermle made (or still makes) these.
    I had a new one a couple of years ago.

    PS:
    Wait a minute, they are also still being made to present by AMS,
    Alois Mayer, Schönenbach.
    Mayer has been in business since ca. 1840.
    Pic is from a 2012 SELVA (www.selva.de) catalogue.

    AMS.jpg
     
  3. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Thanks Jurgen. Given she said her cat occasionally stretched to 'bat' the pendulum, I'll check the EW teeth.
     
  4. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    I had one for a few years and sure did enjoy it early in my collecting experience. Later however after selling it and having it returned a long time later and also learning a lot in the meantime enjoyed resurrecting it, I did find it worked quite fine on a pound and didn't really need the hundred pound weight.
     
  5. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Now you mention it Scottie it is rather a huge heavy duty weight for the movement, probably more for aesthetics than function.
     
  6. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    For interest, after tear down the makers mark could be seen; Staiger, W-Germany.
     
  7. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    #7 soaringjoy, Nov 9, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
    Awesome. ;)
    Staiger (Werner and later Staiger Bros.) were founded in 1883 in St. Georgen
    and there was a fusion with Kundo after 1992.
    After the 1970s, Staiger was mainly known for their quartz clock mkovements.
    The company produced a multitude of plastic parts, grips, handles and such, for
    brushes and shaving brushes, not very much focussed on clocks.
    The company's experience with those products helped them along, during the "quartz
    revolution" and they were able to manifest themselves against domestic and Japanese
    products. Seems they went down in the early 2000s from one day to another. The factory
    was used as a theater for some time.
    Can you show us the stamp, shimmystep?

    Pictures courtesy of Deutsches Uhrenmuseum Furtwangen.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Great info Jurgen, thanks:thumb:

    Here's a pic of the mark; formal/simple.
    IMAG1393.jpg
     
  9. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Thanks for the pic. Yepp, it sorta fits the movement....:p
     
  10. The Treasured Clock

    The Treasured Clock Registered User
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    Shimmybstep,
    It appears to be an early version of one that I had. It appears that Hermlee made an earlier model.
    Jonathan Lee Jones
     
  11. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    just got one of these (staiger) off of craigslist for $20... wouldn't regulate so i went through it today... we'll see.

    just wanted to note the existence of another one in the wild! :cool:
     
  12. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
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    I have one of these I thought was a Hermle till I tried to take it apart. The hands wouldn't turn. Attempting to take it apart but I cannot figure out how this center shaft comes apart. It also is bent from mine or someone's attempts to do so. Can anyone tell me how?

    20191130_072222.jpg 20191130_072106.jpg 20191130_072212.jpg
     
  13. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    First of all, most of the time it is better not to remove these two wheels and rather try to clean with leaving them in place. If you really need to take it apart, this is how it goes: The pinion on the center arbor is a friction fit. You need something like a craw's foot to slide between the pinion and plate and then drive the arbor out, by cautiously hammering with a plastic hammer. Don't use a regular hammer or you will deform the top section of the arbor which will cause problems later on when you try to put the pinion back on. It may also cause problems when you put the minute hand on if this area is deformed. To put the pinion back on you will need a hollow punch or a piece of brass tube with a bore wide enough to let the arbor slide in.

    Uhralt
     
  14. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Great advise from Uhralt. I almost never remove these. Clean in ultrasonic or use hot soapy water getting into the tight spots with a small bristle paint brush. That center arbor can be straightened in a vise or carefully using long flat-nosed pliers.
     
  15. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
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    Thanks guys. I usually don't remove these either except that the hands wouldn't move before disassembly and I cannot see where there is a tension spring or "clutch". I assume it is somewhere between the cannon pinion and the plate but prying on it seemed to loosen something but it won't budge any further. How is the tension held for the hands?
     
  16. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Steam,
    Someone had a similar problem, with a similar movement, a few months back. Was that you? I dont think the problem was resolved but I may have missed something. Willie X
     
  17. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
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    Yeah it was me. Haven't had time to do clock work this summer. I got the hands to move by gently pulling the hands outward but time keeping was erratic. When I pulled it apart this morning I found the was arbor bent. I know this is causing my regulation issue but I can't understand how the tension is maintained on the hands.
     
  18. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
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    Well it took a little patience but I finally got this apart. The cannon pinion is mounted on a pipe that is either pinched or staked over the arbor. Nothing inside so I still am perplexed by how tension is maintained for the hands. Evidently someone had an accident with this thing resulting in the pipe and the arbor being bent. the arbor I can straighten, the pipe a little harder. Am I missing a part ?

    20191202_070208.jpg 20191202_070135.jpg
     
  19. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Well, there has to be a disconnect (clutch) between the center-shaft and the minute hand. What is the minute hand attached to and exactly how is the minute hand attached? Keep those photos coming.

    Maybe someone has one of these. That deep and wide groove in the center shaft looks suspicious.

    Willie X
     
  20. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    The pipe should be a light friction fit on the arbor. The arbor is very slightly conical, so the deeper the pipe is pushed on the arbor, the more friction there is. This is in lieu of a clutch and allows the minute hand to be set. Most French clocks are similar in design. When there is insufficient friction, the hand will slip, when there is too much tension, it will be hard to turn the minute hand manually. The dent on the pipe is probably somebody's attempt to increase friction.

    Uhralt
     
  21. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    To straighten the pipe, you could insert a fitting smooth broach from the back. This will prevent the pipe to collapse while trying to straighten it. The broach will get stuck where the bend begins. Keep manually bending the pipe back and keep moving the broach deeper inside. Do this until the broach clears the whole pipe without much resistance. That should bring you close.

    Uhralt
     
  22. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    I see the center shaft but the minute hand cannon is a mystery so far, unless I'm missing something. Generally the taper is not the source of the friction by itself but simply the carrier for the cannon which has a metal upset somewhere around the mid point to actually cause the friction.

    WIllie X
     
  23. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
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    Thanks for your observations, I tried what Uhralt suggested and the pipe seems straight now. I measured the arbor and the only taper is at the end for 1/16 of an inch and then the rest of the arbor is the same size except where it's cut out. Where the stake/crimp mark is on the pipe matches the cut out on the arbor so I'm pretty sure this is what holds it on. (there is a mark on each side)
    Above these there is also some rivets? or spots that also have created some wear on the arbor and maybe this is what creates the friction. The minute hand just bolts to the end and that portion appears to be solid.

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  24. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Thanks for the pictures. This is a rather uncommon design. Now that the pipe is straightened, do you have some friction?

    Uhralt
     
  25. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
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    Going to clan it first. Lot of nasty came out of the pipe. I'll post it when done.
     
  26. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    So that smaller silver shaft turns around backwards (from the picture) and inserts into a hole bored in the end of the black center shaft?? It's not (at least to me) clear exactly what the minute hand is attached to??

    If you could just lay the parts out in the open, in the manner they normally go together, it would help a lot.

    WIllie X
     
  27. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
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    Yes your right. The minute hand goes on the end of the black shaft on the fourth pic. I'll post more pics tomorrow. Thanks!
     

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