hermle clock movement 451-050

1

107WestStreet

Does anyone have a schematic of the above movement. I slowly disasembled it but all the gears quickly fell out. I took several photos but these only show the edge gears. I feel like such a nuckle head.
 
1

107WestStreet

Does anyone have a schematic of the above movement. I slowly disasembled it but all the gears quickly fell out. I took several photos but these only show the edge gears. I feel like such a nuckle head.
 

doug sinclair

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Aug 27, 2000
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Hi,

Most in this profession just replace these Hermle movements. However, if it is a matter of doing this purely for the challenge, I suggest you might want to check ebay. I understand that rejected movements are available there for not too much money. One of these would be good to have for comparing as you re-assemble yours. And think of the spares! You might also get yourself a set of 4 assembly pegs and a scriber. These are available from LaRose, Mile High, Merrits, Timesavers, and other suppliers, many of whom have on line catalogs. While you are at it, buy 8 so you have one set for the sample clock, and one for your test case. The assembly pegs will help you after separating the plates, by helping you avoid dumping gears all over the place. The scriber will allow you to mark the gears. And taking lots of pictures is a good idea. I don't know a source for schematics, and I doubt there'd be much of a market for them.
 

lpbp

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There is a Hermle manual with exploded views of movements, that is sold by some of the supply houses.

Larry Pearson, FNAWCC* #35863
 

tictock

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Dec 18, 2008
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Does anyone have a schematic of the above movement. I slowly disasembled it but all the gears quickly fell out. I took several photos but these only show the edge gears. I feel like such a nuckle head.
Did you ever find the schematic/exploded view you were looking for? I am in a similar situation with the same model. Customer brought in a movement in a state of semi disassembly. I sure would appreciate a copy or information on purchase of same. I just bought a copy of the Hermle service manual by Roy Hovey. But for my purpose the book is usless.

Thanks
 

harold bain

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Hi, tictock, welcome to the message board. Merritts has a book that might help, don't know if it covers your movement or not. It is the Hermle spare parts catalogue. Says it has expanded schematic drawings. They may tell you on the phone if your movement is mentioned.
1 800-345-4101
 

tictock

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Dec 18, 2008
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Hi, tictock, welcome to the message board. Merritts has a book that might help, don't know if it covers your movement or not. It is the Hermle spare parts catalogue. Says it has expanded schematic drawings. They may tell you on the phone if your movement is mentioned.
1 800-345-4101
Thanks Harold,

I senn that book on their website and was wondering about it. In fact I am planning a trip to Merrit's tomorrow to pick up some parts, only 40 miles away. Postage is a little slow right now so I need to pick some thing up. I will take a look at the book.
 

harold bain

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Tic, if the book doesn't help, they have lots of used movements there that may be economical enough to guide you.
 

harold bain

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Thanks for that link, Steve. I think that is what tic was looking for. I bookmarked it for my own use as well:thumb::thumb:
 

Kevin W.

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Apr 11, 2002
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Thanks Steve, i too book marked it.:)
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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107,

There aren't that many ways you can put it back together.

In fact, except for the two flys and the warning wheels, there is only one way it will go together.

So, I would suggest giving it your best shot. Hold out the two flies and two warning wheels (they have a small pin sticking out of the front sides).

When your done put the fly and warning wheels that have the FINER teeth on the chime side. That's it.

Good luck,
Willie X
 

shutterbug

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Remember that it's easy to bend pivots on that one. Don't use excessive pressure on the plates.
 

Craig16

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Apr 24, 2013
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Have this movement since 2006. Was purchased at a clock shop and never received a manual. I've located one now, plus other specifics. I can't get the movement to stop running fast. The clock ran fine at first but it started running fast so I eventually got around to oil the clock and then discovered that the pendulum was not the correct length of 66cm. It is shorter about 31 inches. Also, I found upon checking the weights, that one of them had bb's in it. I've got the weights figured out, but it is still running fast.

How did the movement run with too short of pendulum and the weights configured the way they were for so long and not now? I'm thinking of purchasing the correct length pendulum. Any suggestions?
 

shutterbug

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Hey Craig! Welcome to our board! I'm a little confused :) Do you mean your pendulum is 31 inches? 31 inches is just short of 79cm --- too long. How much too fast is it in 24 hours? Can you post a few pic's of the movement and pendulum for us?
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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Extra weight in the weight shell is an indicator of a worn out movement. Check the manufacture date, or code, and inspect closely for wear,

These pendulums are readily available, in the correct length, or you can simply change the stick to whatever length you need and use the bob that you have.

Willie X
 

Craig16

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Apr 24, 2013
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I'm sorry...wrong length for movement pendulum. Back plate says 94cm and mine is about 31 inches long.
 

Craig16

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Apr 24, 2013
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I'll be out for the afternoon and will try to get some pictures for you later. Thanks for the quick reply.
 

hdsoftail03

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Jul 23, 2012
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Hi 107 weststreet
I will post these pictures for you to study. This is not the same movement it's a spring driven three train Hermle, but the gear positions should bethe same configuration for Reference. Can be unnerving when things come flying apart and you have know idea where the came from. Hope this helps.
IMG_0564.JPG IMG_0563.JPG IMG_0565.JPG
 

Willie X

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Wasn't sure if it was bought new or used, especially when BBs in the shells was mentioned. Does the date code agree with the 2006 purchase date? Should be an 'S' there somewhere, possibly an 'R'.

The 'H' after the model stands for 'high' bridge. But this does not nail down the date.

Willie X
 

Craig16

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Apr 24, 2013
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I just ref Cousins UK website and they had diagram showing a formula for the pendulum. Shows measuring it from the top pin in the main spring to the tip. My measurement comes out to 37 inches. So the pendulum most not be my problem. I'll need to measure how fast it gets during a 24hr. period.
 

Willie X

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Mark posted the actual length for one of these clocks a few months ago. But, as I said, it varies.

Willie X
 

harold bain

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Have this movement since 2006. Was purchased at a clock shop and never received a manual. I've located one now, plus other specifics. I can't get the movement to stop running fast. The clock ran fine at first but it started running fast so I eventually got around to oil the clock and then discovered that the pendulum was not the correct length of 66cm.
The clock was running fine at first, you say. So do you suspect the pendulum has shrunk? You know, the movement will run fast if your pendulum swing is too small.
 
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shutterbug

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Or, if the pallets are too high it could be skipping teeth.
 

Craig16

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Apr 24, 2013
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Measurement is correct for pendulum. I measured the stick part only, not from the top of the main spring to the bottom tip. Movement does have an auto beat mechanism. Hermle Service Manual says that these are set at factory. Also states customer should learn to use the mechanism but gives not directions how to. Any experience with auto beat mechanisms?
 

harold bain

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A properly working auto beat mechanism works when you give the pendulum a wide swing, which should settle down to an in beat condition. Things to know:
1. Never oil the auto beat connection between the verge and the crutch.
2. Never clean the auto beat connection.
3. You need to tune your ear to hear the difference between in beat and out of beat.
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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Auto-beat will not function properly unless the depth of the pallet is correct. This has already been mentioned about 3 post back. The tooth tip should never fall onto the impulse face of the pallet ... should always drop onto the 'dead' face and then slide a tiny bit before scooting across the impulse face.

If an escape-wheel tooth falls directly onto the impulse face just one time, that's it, the escapement will be thrown out of beat and will soon stop. Sometimes it will keep running with about a 1 inch pendulum amplitude and about 1 hour fast per day.

Pendulum amplitude should be around 3 inches on your clock.

Willie X
 

Craig16

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Apr 24, 2013
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Thanks Willie X. Amplitude is running about 2 3/4"+. I finally got it slowed down with the pendulum and nut about as low as it will go. Running a 24 hour time test now.
Craig
 

Craig16

Registered User
Apr 24, 2013
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24 hr. test resulted in a loss of about 1 minute. Some fine tuning and I think I've got it solved.
Thanks for your help, suggestions and knowledge.
 

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