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Hermle 451-053 Strike Train backwards

bruce linde

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uhm… can you phrase that as a question? clarify what you’re posting about? for example… is that a new movement? an example of a botched repair or service? thx…
 

Micheal R

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I think I got the picture posted, but didn't figure out how to add the words. Which words are: have been trying to reassemble this movement, and I think I have everything correct except the strike train is running backwards, so something is wrong and I am unable to see that problem. I assume those who have worked with this movement should be able to see my problem.
 

bruce linde

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no worries! so i'm not a hermle guy, and i don't see a count wheel... is it possible you put the mainspring backwards? (full disclosure: that would be something i would do!)
 

wow

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The time sprocket and strike sprocket may be in the wrong place. Is the time train turning in the right direction?
 

Micheal R

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The chain wheels pretty much have to be up or down to match the idler wheels. I have tried almost every combination of wheels and chain wheels I can get to work, but I still end up with one train or the other running backward. Have worked on these movements repeatedly, but this time I have got my head so twisted I need some advice.
 

Micheal R

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I will try switching the time and strike chain wheels. That sounds like a good idea. I don't think I have tried that option and the location of the idlers may well make that work. Thanks. If that doesn't work, I will post again on Thursday after I reassemble the movement.
 

wow

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One sprocket turns clockwise and the other ccw I think. They are the same size but turn opposite directions maybe?
 

Micheal R

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Actually the time and strike sprockets are identical. Only way to change the rotation is to turn them over. The chime chain wheel is turned over in the picture to turn that train the correct way. So the time and strike chain wheels turn the same direction and the time is correct but the strike runs that train backwards. Which means, I think, I am not seeing something really obvious that is driving me towards insanity.
 

wow

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I have one in my shop now. If facing the front of the movement, the time sprocket turns clockwise. The strike sprocket on the left turns counter-clockwise. They are the same but the sprocket’s clicks are opposite. The chain on the strike train pulls the train on the left side of the sprocket and it pulls the time sprocket on the right side. Reverse those sprockets and you have fixed it.

FYI…. I always mark the sprockets before removing so they won’t get mixed up.

FE2061C9-9B79-4B17-90F7-C09E0AB4FA7F.jpeg 507F69E1-ED17-46ED-B943-A7749A739B76.jpeg 6D1191E2-5C74-4E55-8A13-0F006288286E.jpeg
 

Micheal R

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OK. Gospel, I will declare this as gospel and work on this tonight when I get home. And I will be grateful for a long while. I was too smart when I pulled the movement apart cause I thought I knew what I was doing. Until you are better paid, thank you. This repair portion of the website has solved many problems for me; I have used it over and over, and I am much in debt to those who share their experience and expert help. Micheal
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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It won't work but one way. If backwards the weights will hit each other. Willie X
 

wow

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OK. Gospel, I will declare this as gospel and work on this tonight when I get home. And I will be grateful for a long while. I was too smart when I pulled the movement apart cause I thought I knew what I was doing. Until you are better paid, thank you. This repair portion of the website has solved many problems for me; I have used it over and over, and I am much in debt to those who share their experience and expert help. Micheal
You are welcome, Michael. Some people frown on my method but I still mark every wheel(tiny etch) as I remove it on the top side. T-1,T-2, S-1, C-2, etc. it helps me in two primary ways:
1. In reassembly I always know where it goes and which side is up.
2. When bushing, I always check each pivot in the new bushing. It is much easier and faster to be able to pick up the wheel and see the mark and know exactly which pivot I need to check.
I do not do this on very old collectible high dollar movements but on modern three train clocks it is a huge time saver. Hope this helps. Good luck!
Will
 

shutterbug

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I notice that in Will's picture, all of the main wheels are upright. So something is wrong somewhere. But both flies should be oriented so that the pinions are in the same direction, so they look right as is. I'm confused too! :)
 

Micheal R

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Dec 3, 2005
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Movement is assembled. The chime train moves the correct direction to operate the chimes. The minute hand moves clockwise. The strike side train moves the hammers to strike. The thing will only go together one way or the weights will be on top of each other. In the future I will scribe each wheel with small letters telling me how stupid I used to be. I will start taking pictures of each step in disassembly. Thank you to all for your patience and good help. Micheal
 

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