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Hermle 451-050H

Larry Orr

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Nov 4, 2019
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Working on a Hermle 451-050H and winding gear that supports the far right train is slipping. When you put the weight on the chain it just runs down. I have removed a gear and think that the shaft is slipping and need to know if that is correct. I would of thought the shaft was either pinned or soldiered to the gear but the part that is slipping doesn't appear to be brass. I have attached a picture for clarity. The part that slips is the small gray gear on the larger brass gear.
Thanks, Larry

IMG_20210215_181548853_HDR (002).jpg
 

Peter John

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Sep 4, 2018
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Working on a Hermle 451-050H and winding gear that supports the far right train is slipping. When you put the weight on the chain it just runs down. I have removed a gear and think that the shaft is slipping and need to know if that is correct. I would of thought the shaft was either pinned or soldiered to the gear but the part that is slipping doesn't appear to be brass. I have attached a picture for clarity. The part that slips is the small gray gear on the larger brass gear.
Thanks, Larry

View attachment 638462
Easiest thing to do is get a new 2nd wheel from Butterworths. The whole spindle is slipping in the brass gear. Peter
 

shutterbug

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I saw the same thing happen a couple years ago to a customer's clock. Took the bottom out of the case when the weight dropped.
 

Larry Orr

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Nov 4, 2019
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Crestview FL
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I saw the same thing happen a couple years ago to a customer's clock. Took the bottom out of the case when the weight dropped.
I bet that was fun to fix. Fortunately that didn't happen in this case. The owner had bought a kit from Emperor 30 years ago and had this problem. I plan on cleaning/lubricating the movement while its out.
 

Larry Orr

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Nov 4, 2019
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Crestview FL
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By chance do you guys have any recommendations on a cleaning fluid for the movement. I've been using a homemade brew for my pocket watches but this looks like I need something a bit stronger or efficient.
 

shutterbug

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For really nasty stuff, brake cleaner works well. Use it outside though ;)
 

Larry Orr

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Nov 4, 2019
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Crestview FL
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I'm back on the Hermle 451-50H. Ordered a 2nd wheel from Butterworths but think I ordered the wrong part. I've attached a picture with both gears, the one on the left is the new gear, the old one on the right. I requested a 2nd wheel chime gear. I don't have a schematic so I'm not confident I ordered the right part. As you look at the front of the clock the train that doesn't work is on the right side. The gear that holds the weight from slipping needs to be replaced. Shutterbug please take a look and let me know what you think. Thanks, Larry

IMG_20210223_191601919.jpg
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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Lots of things at Hermle changed in 1988. Your wheel may be one of those "then vs now" things. Willie X
 

wow

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Jun 24, 2008
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If you want the gear that holds the weight from slipping, you did order the wrong part. I think you need the 1st wheel rather than the 2nd.
 
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shutterbug

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Yes, there is clearly a height problem there. Is there a similar wheel in the other train? Mark reads the posts here, so maybe he can identify what you really need. He's pretty easy to get along with, so will probably allow an exchange if you pay the postage.
 

Larry Orr

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Nov 4, 2019
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Crestview FL
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Talked to Mark this morning. Since this is an "H" model Hermle no longer supports with parts. Apparently the change in 1988 was a new gear pattern. His advice was to replace the movement. I think I will attempt to repair the old gear first. Appreciate all of your responses.
Thanks, Larry
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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Old Hermle movements are very common and cheap. Repairers often have buckets of old movements laying around and will usually jump at the chance to sell one (or maybe two) for 10 bucks. Unfortunately the shipping cost WILL be more than the movement/s. :(
Also, a jewelery repair person can usually do a nice job of brazing the old one back together for you. They will usually have a minimum charge of around 10 to 20 bucks. Bad thing is that repair may result in an "out of round" condition ...
The kicker is that you can spend a lot of your precious time and money on these things just to find more problems.
IOWs Marks advice is sound, like it or not. :) Willie X
 

NEW65

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Nov 17, 2010
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The one on the right is the second wheel in the chime train. The one on the left is the second wheel for the time train.
 
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NEW65

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As Willie mentions , I am one of those that have a heap of hermle weight driven movements , over 250 used 1151’s and 0451’s along with hundreds of spare parts. These are the two movements that I rebuild daily. From what you say it sounds as if you need the chain wheel?
 

Dick Feldman

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If you order a new part and it is the correct one, the new part still has the potential of going bad with use.
A correct used wheel/arbor assembly has a greater chance of having the same stigma and has a good chance to fail earlier than a new part with defective design. New or used that was a poor design.
You will better spend your money with a new movement with a warranty.
Again, that is what I think.
Dick
 

shutterbug

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Could you take the needed part off the long part and stake it onto your original? If the only difference is length, that seems doable.
 

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