Hermle 1171, rate of quarter chime query

[NEW65]

I have just overhauled an hermle 1171 . All seems good on all three trains.
However when I select St Michael and Whittington options the rate of the quarter chimes are relatively slow.
When I select Westminster chime that plays at the same rate as the above two which confuses me a little as I would expect that to play at a marginally faster rate.
I did a test - I hung the lighter strike train weight on the quarter train and the tested the quarter chime on St Michael /Whitt and the lighter weight did power the train but very slowly! That made me feel a little more confident!
I am just wondering why this movement plays slowly and why it didn’t speed up on Westminster? I have never seen that before as Westminster only has 4 hammers to drive compared to St Mich and Whitt which have 8 hammers?
Can anyone help explain this?
The clock does have the correct weights.
Thanks

 

[Willie X]

Pop the plastic cable retainer off and see what happens. Willie

 

[NEW65]

Cheers Willie. Sorry I should have mentioned that this is weight driven on chains.

 

[Dick Feldman]

My guess is that the chime train is lacking power.
Normal speed on the WM chimes is due to the governor doing its job and slowing the rate.
JMHO
Dick

 

[NEW65]

Thanks Willie and Dick… I’m heading over to work shop today and I’ll do a quick video of Whitt and Westminster to demonstrate … What confuses me Dick is that Whitt and St Michael is completed at 1x4, 2x4, 3x4, 4x4 with the much lighter hour strike weight hung in place (obviously slowly but does it).
The movement was slow on all three selections before I overhauled it and to be honest there was hardly in any wear in this movements. I didn’t need to fit many bushings .
On a different note, I recently fitted a brand new hermle 1151 for another clock company - St Mich and Whitt was very slow even after I’d oiled it! I even adjusted the hammer return springs in the hope that I could improve power that way , but no improvement!
May be some movements are just slow in chime rate?

 

[Dick Feldman]

My experience is that if there is wear in the train, the wear is throughout, not necessarily in a few pivot holes.
There is no reason for a clock train to wear only in parts.
Have you turned the movement on its back and checked end shake? It only takes one arbor tight in the plates to cause a power loss. Could there be a bent pivot in the train? Have you lost a center when you bushed?
It only takes one questionable pivot hole to slow a train.
Neither clean, oil or adjust are viable solutions for low power in a clock train due to the above problems.
A slow train will become a stopped train with time.
The situation is not like a cut on your hand--It will not heal itself.
JMHO,
Dick

 

[NEW65]

Here is a link:

Cheers

* just bear in mind that the hour weight which is much lighter drives St Mich and Whitt

 

[NEW65]

Thanks Dick for your message. All very clear and precise.
Im still confused about the rate of st mich and Whitt on the brand new hermle movements though. I have just fitteda brand new hermle 1151 for another clock company in scotland. Even after oiling it was still no faster on st mich or Whitt. I did think that maybe the movement had a fault eg a slightly bent pivot but apparently the last 6 new hermle 1151s have all been the same, all painfully slow on st mich/Whitt!
over the years I have had other new movements that have also been similar and then of course we have movements that chime like the clappers
Just wanted to mention above , thanks as always

 

[NEW65]

Any views on the video would be appreciated… perhaps I’m wrong with my assumption about the rate of the chime, most of you chaps will have had dealings with 1171 movements so it’d be good to share your views and thoughts on this. Thanks

 

[Willie X]

I would say that the speed is a bit slow and the speed is also varying. Did you do any work at C3 and C4? Willie

 

[NEW65]

Hi Willie. I rebushed C3 and C4 front plate but didn’t do rear the rear holes of these two wheels. This movement didn’t have much wear at all in the strike and chime trains and by the looks of it has only been used as a time piece because I had to rebush every pivot hole in the time train.
I’m beginning to wonder if the chime weight is correct now - the reason I query this is because the middle weight has the same iron filling as the chime weight but I’m sure that the chime weights are supposed to be heavier? I checked with the previous owner of the clock and he tells me that he bought the clock as is from new and nothing has been changed ! However I am not convinced!
The shells measure 60mm x 245 mm?
Thanks Willie

 

[Willie X]

I'll check a few charts too. They don't all agree sometimes. The tube bell version takes an 18 pounder, learned that the hard way. Willie

 

[shutterbug]

It doesn't sound terrible. Does that one have those little intermediate gears between c1 and c2? Those wear badly sometimes and need to be replaced.

 

[NEW65]

Thanks Shutt.
Not this one but I have seen the hermle movement you describe with those intermediate wheels! I just cannot recall which model it is now , I think it’s the earlier 1171 movement. And I do remember wear in those gears Shutt
Thanks

 

[Willie X]

I cheked about 5 places (old and new) and they all agreed on 9.9 pounds.

I only had only one personal side note ... the 10 1/2" lyre pendulum is supposed to swing 3 5/8".

Willie X

 

[NEW65]

Thanks Willie for your time and help.
Here is what I need:

Cart

timesavers.com

I’m not necessarily going to buy this but this is what is needed for my 1171