Hermle 1050-020

Bayernland

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Oct 1, 2004
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Hi, I’m putting a new chime mainspring in a Howard Miller with a Hermle 1050-020. The chime barrel on my clock is labeled 54. According to the Timesavers catalog, that movement should have chime barrel 55.

Do you think someone put the wrong barrel in the clock or should I assume barrel 54 belongs in that clock?

I’m asking: does barrel 54 belong in my movement?

If so, which mainspring should I order?

Thank you, Dwane
 

THTanner

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Jul 3, 2016
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the 55 and 54 barrels are the same size with the same number of teeth.

the difference in the numbering has to do with what spring they are shipped with

the 54 uses a .827 x .0165 x 74.9 (inches for all)

the 55 uses a .827 x 0.179 x 70.9

the 55 has a shorter, stronger spring is basically the only difference.

typically you want to use the weaker spring if it does the job - the chime spring is almost always the strongest spring in a clock, what numbers are on the other barrels? It is possible that someone swapped barrels or even swapped end plates??
 

Bayernland

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Oct 1, 2004
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Thank you for the reply. I should have thought about the switch. This clock has a strike and chime. I wonder if the last repairman switched the chime barrel with the strike barrel? Owner said the chime never ran properly after last cleaning.

Is it possible the 55 is on the strike side? I’ll check. Thanks again. Dwane
 

claussclocks

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Mar 14, 2013
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According to The Hermle Service Guide:

The 1050 takes
a #52 barrel for the time 43/64 x .0165 x 47 1/4
a #50 for the strike 43/64 x .0155 x 47 1/4
a #55 for the chime 53/64 x .0175 x 70-7/8

The 50 and 52 barrels are the same diameter and tooth number. The 55 and 54 are the same size barrel but are larger than the 50/52.

Someone may have used a 54 because they had it on hand and it fit.

Be sure to check the barrel arbor holes for wear. Hermle's are bad about wallowing out especially on the gear side and your barrel will run at an angle in the pinion. I have seen them so worn the barrel started touching the front plate which robs massive power and can lead to spring breakage. If so you will need to bush or replace the barrel. Would be cheaper at that point to order a combination barrel spring replacement of the right size and be done with it.
 
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THTanner

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According to The Hermle Service Guide:

The 1050 takes
a #52 barrel for the time 43/64 x .0165 x 47 1/4
a #50 for the strike 43/64 x .0155 x 47 1/4
a #55 for the chime 53/64 x .0175 x 70-7/8

The 50 and 52 barrels are the same diameter and tooth number. The 55 and 54 are the same size barrel but are larger than the 50/52.

Someone may have used a 54 because they had it on hand and it fit.

Be sure to check the barrel arbor holes for wear. Hermle's are bad about wallowing out especially on the gear side and your barrel will run at an angle in the pinion. I have seen them so worn the barrel started touching the front plate which robs massive power and can lead to spring breakage. If so you will need to bush or replace the barrel. Would be cheaper at that point to order a combination barrel spring replacement of the right size and be done with it.
================

And it could be that a 55 spring size is in a 54 barrel - they fit fine
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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The company made this movement over many years using several different springs. I doubt if any of your parts have been swapped around. I would go for the lighter chime spring as already mentioned by THT.

In general the Hermle chime side springs provide about 50% more torque and about 1 extra turn of power over the time and strike springs.

Willie X
 

THTanner

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The company made this movement over many years using several different springs. I doubt if any of your parts have been swapped around. I would go for the lighter chime spring as already mentioned by THT.

In general the Hermle chime side springs provide about 50% more torque and about 1 extra turn of power over the time and strike springs.

Willie X
Willie - would you suggest a new 55 barrel - or just get the 55 spring and mark the 54 barrel with a note? - the combo barrel and spring is about 50 dollars at TS
 

claussclocks

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If your 54 barrel is sound and not wallowed out around the arbor I'd opt for the Spring. See if Willie agrees.
 

Willie X

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Yesiree ... wasn't long ago when the barrel/spring combos were 9 or 10 bucks a pop. Now, I scroung parts from my scrap movement pile. You sure don't want to sink very much time & money in a Hermle movement, especially if it's over about 20 years old.

Also, check and see if the punched barrel hook area is pooched out. That also would be a good reason to replace the whole barrel/spring assembly.

I don't think you mentioned exactly what kind of problem you were having?

Willie X
 
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Bayernland

NAWCC Member
Oct 1, 2004
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Hi all, Thank you so much for the responses. This is why I pay my dues!

The chime was acting oddly. If I applied a little more force to the barrel with my finger it seemed to work fine. So, my thought was to replace the mainspring as it might be tired. When I looked in the Timesaver catalog I found this movement listed as a #55 chime barrel, while mine is a #54.

Both the strike and time have a #50 barrel.

I suppose, based on the advice, that I will put a new mainspring in and see how it operates. Everything else seems fine with the clock.

Thanks
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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A 'like for like' replacement probably won't make much difference. A slow chime is almost always a wear problem. Usually, C3F and/or C4F. Or, it can be 'general wear', where slight to moderate wear is in lots of places. Over liftting hammers, binding hammer tails, etc can can be problematic. And, a very common cause is hardened goop on the fly pinion and the wheel that drives it. This can be very hard to see but dragging a smallish watch screwdriver's tip across every gullet can make things better. If the clock is apart, a small stiff bristle rotary brush will work, or a soft brass brush, carefully used, will also do the deed.
Willie X
 

R. Croswell

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Apr 4, 2006
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A 'like for like' replacement probably won't make much difference. A slow chime is almost always a wear problem. Usually, C3F and/or C4F. Or, it can be 'general wear', where slight to moderate wear is in lots of places. Over liftting hammers, binding hammer tails, etc can can be problematic. And, a very common cause is hardened goop on the fly pinion and the wheel that drives it. This can be very hard to see but dragging a smallish watch screwdriver's tip across every gullet can make things better. If the clock is apart, a small stiff bristle rotary brush will work, or a soft brass brush, carefully used, will also do the deed.
Willie X
Willie or Mark, isn't this one of movements where the strike and chime fly pinions are slightly different diameter that can get mixed up easily? If it has been apart something to check.

RC
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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Yes it is, but the problem on that deal is varying stop positions with an eventual jaming of the chime train. It could slow the chime also, I'm not sure. It's always been a surprise to me that switching the top two arbors will still allow both trains to run! The differing tooth counts on the 5th arbor pinions is what causes the problem. I think nearly everyone remembers doing this stunt at least once. :) Willie X
 

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