Herchede 9 Tube Clock Chime Train Problems

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Mr. Herschede, Jun 21, 2019.

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  1. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

    Jan 8, 2010
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    I have a Herchede 9 tube grandfather clock that keeps perfect time but the train driving the chimes stops at random times. I have it in for repair with an experienced local clock shop for over a year and he has been working on it diligently and replacing parts here and there. After all this effort and time, it is still stopping (chime train only) but the clock keeps perfect time. Any ideas out there?
     
  2. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    they are notoriously finicky movements. unless everything is smooth, they simply will not run. most likely the problem is somewhere in the top of the train near the fly govenor.

    what i would do is take the movement all apart. install each wheel one at a time in the plates and spin it with my fingers to see if it has some sort of friction loss. i would move on to each wheel in the train until i had every one spinning freely like a top.(childs toy)

    then i would start at the bottom of the train and install 2 consecutive wheels at a time and spin those in the same way looking for friction loss.

    this is how i find the power robbers and figure out what pivots need to be rebushed.
     
  3. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    The movement has three trains… Time, strike, and chime. They kind of run independently of each other so it’s no surprise that it’s keeping perfect time.

    You or your guy need to put it on the test stand and watch it and observe and figure out what’s hanging up. I was just working on a five tube German movement… Kind of similar… And everything was good, services were polished and oiled, and it worked perfectly when turning the hands manually. When left on its own though I would come back to find that the gathering pin was just sitting there and hadn’t started turning which meant that the fan wouldn’t turn which meant that it wouldn’t chime. The slightest touch would start it running. I finally figured out that a center screw holding the front plate in place and located near the chime side was screwed in half a turn too tight and bringing the front and back plates together Just enough to mess with it.

    I’m not saying that your problem… But you need to figure out what part of the chime train is actually hanging up when it stops. Hope that helps
     
  4. Dick Feldman

    Dick Feldman Registered User

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    Your symptoms are of a worn movement and my bet would be on your clock movement being worn to the point that it cannot give reliable service.
    Clock movements are machines and will wear like any other machine.
    That wear translates to friction and eventually that friction will overcome the power supplied to the movement. Herschede has been out of production for more than enough years to wear out a movement (maybe twice).
    The normal solution for wear is to install bushings in the front and rear plates of the clock movement, bringing everything back into alignment and reducing friction to a tolerable level.
    With Herschede clocks, the chime train requires the most power (has the heaviest weight) and consequently is usually the first train to fail.
    My experience is that when the chime train fails on one of those clocks, the movement is due for a rebuild on all three trains.
    To carry that thought another step---There is no reason on this earth that a clock should only wear in some places. Installing bushings in only enough places to make the clock run is a short sighted effort. That practice will normally be a short term repair and the clock will become unreliable again when one of the previously ignored wear points becomes critical.
    Cleaning, oiling and adjusting are preventative procedures and cannot solve wear and replacing parts probably will not solve your problem. How old is your clock? What model is your clock? Can you supply pictures of the movement? What is it that your clock repair person has done to your clock?
    Best Regards,
    Dick Feldman
     
  5. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Check the fly for endplay and make sure it's balanced. The vanes should be adjusted evenly.

    Also, wiggle the chime side gathering beak. Wear at this pivot is common.

    If it always stops when lifting the same hammer, that can point you in the right direction.

    WIllie X
     
  6. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    #6 Mr. Herschede, Jun 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
    It is on a test stand and has been for a year! The center weight stops. Not sure if that's strike or chime. Don't have pictures or model number because it's in the shop for repair. However, it is the Christopher Columbus model 9 tube Herschede.
     
  7. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    One year, you probably need to rescue that clock as soon as you can. Willie X
     
  8. Dick Feldman

    Dick Feldman Registered User

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    Mr. Herschede,
    I sent you a private message through this board.
    Dick
     
  9. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    How do I get to the message board? Don't see an icon for that:???:??
     
  10. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    you're on the message board.

    if you look in the upper right corner of the header of this page you'll see your avatar/icon. if you mouseover that you will get a dropdown menu. one of the choices will be 'PM/Conversations' (PM = private message).
     
  11. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Don't see that on my header. Only log in information.
     
  12. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    #12 Mr. Herschede, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2019
     
  13. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    ok... so is there a reason you aren't logging in?
     
  14. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    I am logged in. Still don't see the icon you're talking about.
     
  15. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    I am logged in.
     
  16. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    FFFF252E-F86B-4A7E-B05E-CCE76808A88F.png 7465E19C-D480-4309-9A45-1D49A5ED0D25.png

    I logged in as you using my iPhone… I’m not at my computer. Note in the first screenshot the mobile menu has a one next to it showing that you have an alert or private message. Note in the second screenshot what happens when you click on the icon to see what your alerts and private conversations actually entail. Do you see those? I won’t be able to answer until tomorrow
     
  17. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    No my screen does not show the same format. I do not have a smart phone, only a computer. No #1 showing on mine. Thanks, Phil
     
  18. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    how about a screen shot so i can see what you're seeing...
     
  19. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    btw... here's my screenshot... you would mouseover this....

    Screen Shot 2019-06-25 at 7.56.43 AM.jpg Screen Shot 2019-06-25 at 7.57.19 AM.jpg
     
  20. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    You might try control-minus a couple of times to reduce the screen size. If too big, the top bar disappears.
     
  21. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Still don't see any change except smaller.
     
  22. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    hmm... i think i've gone out of my way to try and help. when you're ready to post a screen shot so we can see what you're seeing, let us know. in the meantime, nothing to see here (literally)... moving on.

    p.s.: you're welcome.
     
  23. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Not sure how to do this but try this:

    Herchede 9 Tube Clock Chime Train Problems

    Thanks!
     
  24. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    I printed all the responses to this thread and gave them to my repair guy. He said the bushings in the end plates were fine and nobody on this forum has responded to my attempts to find another repair guy in SoCa :???::???::???:?? Don't know what else to do. Stuck.
     
  25. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    you just linked back to this thread... and i'm not sure why.

    this thread has TWO topics under discussion: 1) comments/discussion about your clock, and 2) an open request for a screenshot of your computer desktop so we can see what you're seeing and try to help you find your private conversations.

    as for the first one, let me try this: are you on a desktop computer or a mobile device? what browser are you using? do you know how to take a screenshot of what you're looking at?

    i'm really doing my best to help you but have to confess i'm getting frustrated with your lack of specificity or any acknowledgement of my efforts on your behalf. last chance to provide helpful info and/or express any appreciation for my time... just sayin'...





    those who have tried to help in this thread are wondering if your current guy knows what he's doing... given that it's been on a test stand for over a year (according to you). it could be anything: bushings, a bent tooth, a rough spot on one of the warning levers, who knows? whoever works on it needs to methodically step through making sure potential issues are dealt with one at a time... until there are none left.

    the one thing that i do know is that there is NO request in this thread for 'another repair guy in SoCa'.

    you may have reached out to a member by private message or posting on their profile page... but that's not the same as asking a simple/direct question in your thread, which 36 people (so far) have checked out... just sayin'...
     
  26. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Not true, read post #12. Still can't get on to private messaging.
     
  27. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    you're right... my bad, sorry.



    yeah... and you won't until/unless you address any of the specific questions i've floated in my feeling-more-and-more-like-no-good-deed-goes-unpunished efforts to help.
     
  28. gleber

    gleber Registered User

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    Do you see the three bars and the magnifying glass in the upper right of the page across from the NAWCC logo?

    If so, click on the three bars. It will open the menu. On the menu you should see an envelope icon in the row under your name. Click on it.

    Tom
     
  29. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    If you can see what gleber is talking about, just to the left of the magnifying glass is the icon that Bruce has been discussing.
     
  30. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Not on my screen. I have the magnifying glass. A black icon to the left of that. When I click on that, I just get my own profile.
    Thanks!

    Phil Swanson
     
  31. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Let's forget private messaging because I don't have it. So who is the Herschede expert in SoCa? Anybody know??
     
  32. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    I don't get it You call yourself Mr. Herschede ?? Is this just a stage name?
    I work on many of these clocks. Your repairman, it all depends on how thorough he was. Did he bush the winding arbors Did he bush the first wheel in the chime train. Did he bush the gather pallet. Did he set the depth properly on the first wheel. How much warning did he set on the chime train. Many things could be the problem, or an accumulation of things together. Asking a proud question about why it hangs up, and not knowing what to do. Wouldn't be much help to you, unless you know this clock and how it operates and reacts. Were the pulley bushed << this causes allot of friction if they are worn.
     
  33. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    every now and again....i am guessing you just feel like hitting yourself in the face with a brick?


    goodness gracious man!!!! mr herchede....there is an icon between the magnifying glass and the word "donations" in the top right corner. click on the icon and explore the menu. if you can't get it to work, either update your browser or try another one(browser that is).
     
  34. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Yes, I have that icon and when I click on it, I only get my own profile. Again, is there a better repair guy in SoCa:???:?
     
  35. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Don't click on it, hover over it and the menu should pop up.
    Edit: it works both ways for me, but try the hover thing. If that doesn't work, I think your browser must be blocking it.
     
  36. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Running Windows 10. Hovering over icon does nothing. But I don't care about that. Just looking for a good repair guy around San Diego.
     
  37. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    You may have to send it to somebody I lived in San Diego for 27 years good luck
     
  38. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Yea but who?
     
  39. TEACLOCKS

    TEACLOCKS Registered User
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  40. Peter John

    Peter John Registered User
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    Now we know the problem. You’re running Windows. I divorced myself from Windows 3 yrs ago. Got an iPad. No more problems, frustration, stress, update issues (which is why I finally dumped Windows), just clean , smooth operating system with iOS. Try it, you’ll like it. Not sure what the issue is with the Herschede tho’. :);)Peter
     
  41. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    No rotten Apples for me. I have two Surface computers now. I tried Apple and hated that they didn't get along with Google.
     
  42. Peter John

    Peter John Registered User
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    My iPad and Google get along just fine. I have an iMac also but rarely turn it on, so I don’t know how well it and Google would work. My go to is either iPhone or iPad. Never had problems with Google. But we digress from your problem. I have repaired many Herschede clocks in the last 50 years but have never had one that took a year or more to get right. They can get cranky but it is just another clock. If the job is done right it will work. Peter
     
  43. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    In your own profile, you should see two red dots: One for PM/Conversations, one for Alerts. Click on the former.
     
  44. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    My goto guy for repairs that need a master's touch is David LaBounty. His web site is down right now, but repairs are in the works. His prices are reasonable, and he'll get it done right for you. Shipping might be a bit expensive. Ask him for a quote.
     
  45. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Unfortunately none of this helps. The ONLY thing I need is the name of somebody better in SoCa area.
     
  46. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Where is he located? I want somebody in SoCa so I don't have to ship it.
     
  47. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    No red dots.
     
  48. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    Would you ship it to AZ
     
  49. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    David lives in West Nebraska.
     
  50. Mr. Herschede

    Mr. Herschede Registered User

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    Where in Arizona? I often drive there. I wouldn't ship because the weights would have to ship too. It's always risky because you can't stop in and monitor progress and if you get into a dispute, you are at a disadvantage.
     

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