Henry Terry Wood Works Clock

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by Russell Dickson, Dec 30, 2018.

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  1. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I just won this clock at an auction. A very nice Henry Terry wood works clock. I'm not sure of the age. I think it is from the 1830s. It seems to be complete. Some minor chips in veneer, the dial may not be original. The intricate carving is beautiful. It will make a great addition to my collection, after I clean it up a bit and get it running. Any information about it will be appreciated.

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  2. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Fully carved case with paw feet in old surface and appears reasonable shape.

    8 day MAHOGANY plate ww movement. Appears to have at least 1 of the original wood compounding pulleys. The weights that are in the pic are for a 30 hour movement. They will never run that clock.

    Why do you think the dial is not original. The center hole appears a bit elongated...anything else?

    Not too shabby!

    There is a ton of info about 8 day ww in the Bulletin. As a member you have access on-line. Take a look. There is also a great Bulletin supplement about 8 day ww clocks...which inexplicably is not accessible on line.

    Enjoy your clock.

    RM

    PS: I wonder if this thread shouldn't be on the wooden works forum.
     
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  3. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I have not picked it up yet, but I was told by the auctioneer it does not fit the clock. I don't know if he means the holes do not line up or the dial wont seat properly in the case. I will have to see for myself. What kind of a weight will I need a heavy groaner type?
     
  4. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    #4 Jim DuBois, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
    You are likely to need something very similar to this weight. Please note your clock does require a compounded weight run, pulley on top of weight and return to the top of the case. And yes, it will need 12-13 pounds to run and strike compounded.....it looks like you may have both pulleys in the case already. That is good news. Finding the right weights will not be all that easy, unless your luck continues....the luck that got you the clock that is. Nice find!

    Image 1.jpg 20181231_070312.jpg
     
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  5. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    The dial looks like the type and style used in these 8 day wood works. Even if it's not "original" to the clock looks to be a good fit. The two strips of wood above the works and at the bottom of the works are the dial retainers. There should be two wood atrips dovetailed vertically on the back of the dial. That bottom wood strip has two holes in it indicating the dial was held in place with pins coming up through the bottom of the strip into the bottom of the vertical dovetail strips. I can't see the top in the photo. The clock I had that mounted the dial like this had pins through the top case plate down into the dovetailed strip ends. This may not be the original dial. There are two screw holes in the bottom of the dial and there is no indication of where the screws went in the wood behind them.
     
  6. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I am gonna pick the clock up from the auction house hopefully late next week. I will post more pictures of it. I was told by the auctioneer it is not the correct dial. I think the winding arbor holes do not line up. I have a friend in my local nawcc chapter that thinks he has the correct dial and weights for this clock, so we will see. I hope it is the original because I like to keep all my clocks as original as possible.
     
  7. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Thanks Jim I know a guy in my local nawcc chapter that thinks he has the right weights and dial for this clock. I will show him your picture.
     
  8. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    If the other dial does not work out you can use this one. I've had to move winding holes on replacement wood dials before. Once the old holes are filled and the new ones are cut you can send the dial to The Dial House in Dallas GA (dialhouse.net). They can retouch it so you will never know the holes were moved. It should not be too expensive, but in any case it would be worth the cost to bring this one back to life.
     
  9. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    That's a good idea. I definitely want to take my time and restore this clock right. I am not going to refinish it or anything. I like old finish on clocks. This one has a nice old almost ebonized look from age. I will just clean it up a bit, get it running and find the placement parts. I think this clock should have wood finials on the top. They might be a challenge to find.
     
  10. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I did get lucky on this one. I wanted it but didn't want to overpay, so I put in my best bid at the last second, then someone out bid me and retracted it. It was a real nail biter for me, but I got it. I love Terry woodworks clocks. I have an Eli Terry Pillar and Scroll too. I want to get a Samuel Terry next, then a Sam and Eli Terry.
     
  11. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    #11 Joseph Bautsch, Jan 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    I don’t think the clock had finials on top. Just the two plates on top of the towers on either side of the splat. But you never know, it’s possible. When you get the clock look for the holes where a finial may have been. More often than not, making the dial and painting it was contracted out to other people who specialized in that skill set. You often will see the same style dial on clocks by different makers and all are “original”. There is no telling what dial was original to your clock. Styles were changed often and used on the same clock. Keep the dial you do use in the same time period as the clock. I have a Samuel Terry WW 30 hr from about 1830 - 1835. So yours is probably from the same time period.
     
  12. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    8 day dials are a bit harder to come by. The production of 8 day ww clocks was a very small percentage of the total production. I bought the following stack of dials to hopefully find a Jeromes and Darrow 8 day dial. None there...oh well! But you may well find one by asking and searching....and more luck. It sounds like you are pretty lucky so far, first the clock, now the weights....regards finials, some certainly did have them, the tops of the plinths should tell the story. I have a couple of the carved column carved splat carved feet clocks now, neither had finials....yes, I really did buy 60+ dials and not get the one I needed, and no, not interested in selling the leftovers....that would violate MB rules...from here at least.

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  13. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I wonder if the lithograph is original? I think it would have had a mirror or tablet wouldn't it?
     
  14. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Not original.

    Someone stuck a much later print behind the glass.

    It could have very well been reverse painted.

    One of those pix would make a great wallpaper for a clock collectors computer?

    RM
     
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  15. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Some certainly had mirrors. I like painted tablets but given the softness of the clock market and the cost of properly executed repro tablets mirrors often do make good sense and cost a lot less

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  16. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    Yes a lot of these clocks had a "looking glass" a mirror was very popular at time. If you go for the mirror you can get a period hand made one from Bendhiem Reproduction Glass (Mouth-Blown Restoration Window Glass). I have used their reproduction glass, both clear and mirror, in several clocks. Their glass is hand made in the same way as it was made from early to late 19th century. They have several time periods of glass to coose from. The cost of a reproduction mirror would be a lot cheaper than a reverse painting on period glass.
     
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  17. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I was wondering whether I should replace it or just leave the lithograph, since it is not original, guess I will remove it. It would be luck indeed if a painted dial was under it, lol, more like pure fantasy on my part.
     
  18. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I'm not sure whether to go with a mirror or find a vintage tablet or repro?
     
  19. Tom Vaughn

    Tom Vaughn Registered User

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    As a Plymouth Historian, I always try to shed a little light on the makers themselves also. Most clock collectors don't tend to get much info into maker's personal lives, but there's usually some really cool information. My friend Kirk lives in Henry Terry's house in Plymouth... The house is built overlooking Plymouth Green and is currently being fully restored. The Terry family in town was heavily influenced by their father Eli Terry Sr., who was very anti-slavery. Eli Terry Sr., and Henry Terry's houses were both used on the underground railroad, and Henry Terry's house still has the false basement around the main basement where runaway slaves would hide. The mantel in the parlor also has a T on it, made by Henry Terry himself. Henry Terry grew up and worked primarily at Terry's Bridge, where his father invented the box clock and later the pillar and scroll clock. The Eli Terry house is still standing at Terry's Bridge, but it was likely rebuilt in the 1840's by Henry Terry. Henry Terry didn't seem too financially successful in the clock industry so he opened up a woolen mill and a silk mill, both of which only stayed open for a few years. He later served as the town surveyor and did community work throughout his retirement. He once beat one of his minor factory workers and had a hefty lawsuit filed against him by the boy's father... Later on he tried suing the boy for vandalism but lost that case too.
    Your clock is gorgeous, congratulations on the new piece for your collection!

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  20. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    #20 Russell Dickson, Jan 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
    Thank you for the fascinating insights. I love to learn anything I can about this family. I do have a bit of an obsession/fascination with Eli Terry and his sons and their impact on clockmaking industry and manufacturing history. I am planning a trip to the area this summer. I want to go to the clock museum there and visit any and all historical sites pertinent to clock making history. I would love to visit their homes. The Henry Terry Clock I got was from an auction in Bristol Ct, so it seems like it never traveled far from its home until now. I am in upstate NY so it still has not gone too far since its creation. I'm happy to keep it in New England.
     
  21. Tom Vaughn

    Tom Vaughn Registered User

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    Contact me before you come, I would be happy to show you around the town. We have the last working wooden gear tower clock, in the Plymouth Church (made by Terry), the ruins of the Porter Contract factory and waterfall, the Eli Terry Jr. Waterwheel (Not really related to clockmaking but the site is...), the historical society, the Eli Terry cemetery, and plenty of historic homes in which the Terry family resided.
     
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  22. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    That would be terrific! I may just take you up on it.
     
  23. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I like to run my favorite clocks daily, is it a bad idea to run an 8 day wood works daily with the tremendous weight required to run them and the stress it puts on the gears?
     
  24. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    I personally don't run most of my antique clocks, brass or wood. I would be hesitant to run an 8 day WW unless I knew it was in excellent condition. Most of them are not in a condition I would trust. A badly repaired tooth here or there, worn pivot holes in the plates, very dry conditions in homes with central heat, a lot of weight, 12 pounds compounded still yields double the stress seen in a 30hr movement, on teeth that were originally made for 30 hr weights, and where they are often marginal at that. I know people who run WW clocks all the time, and others only run them at "show time" and others who don't run them at all. I have one wood works tall clock I have owned for 45 years that I have never run.

    Conversely I have spent the last 2 days attempting to restore another 8 day wood works tall clock to running condition. This one dates about 1800-1810 so it needs a lot of attention to run again. And it uses a 15# weight....
     
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  25. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Wow that is an early one, would love to see a picture. I love to run my clocks, but I only run 7 or 8 at a time, then rest them and run several others, but I have a few that I love so much I have to run them. I will take your advice and only run this clock on special occasions. While I have your attention, could I have your email I would to write you about those dials you posted earlier if it doesn't break the rules. I am searching for a good one for this Terry clock?
     
  26. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Russell, PM sent.

    And here is one of the quite early Ives 8 day wood works roller pinion movements with glass dials etc.....

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  27. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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  28. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Well, I cut new pinions when they are worn, be it wood works or iron/steel pinions. I have never found any effective way to remove wear and usually the various approaches used, be it laser welding on iron/steel, or epoxy used on wood pinions. I have seen both ways done but in the long run a proper repair calls more for new than these other "solutions." If time was money.......it is both cheaper and more reliable to make a proper replacement.
     
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  29. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Wow, that is a skilled art, and very admirable. Wish there was someone around my area that did it that way. I know a fellow that says he has had a lot success using epoxy on wood pinions and has not had any issues, even years later, so I am wondering whether I should bring my terry clock to him. Cost isn't too much of an issue when it come to clocks in my collection. I will email you shortly regarding your dials.
     
  30. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Here are some folks efforts at pinion repairs, not so well executed and here for new parts.

    20190119_131705.jpg 20190119_131619.jpg 2018-02-07 14.25.56.jpg
     
  31. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    So my work continues on the restoration of my Henry Terry 8 day wood works clock. I finally tracked down 12 lb weights that fit the channels, ordered an appropriate reproduction reverse painted tablet to replace the 1920's lithograph currently residing in the door. The appropriate dial has proved elusive to me, a friend from my local nawcc chapter lent me a box of woodworks dials and out of all of them only one that will work, it is a groaner dial, so I am going to have the old arbor holes filled and new ones drilled, and the dial restored for now as I continue to look for a vintage dial that fits my clock.

    Attached is a diagram with the appropriate measurements for the dial. If anyone has a dial that will work for me I would be grateful if you would pm me.
     

    Attached Files:

  32. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    I have a few dials. It is unlikely I will have what you need but I will check the next time I access their storage place. A Few Dials
     
  33. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    That would be great when you get the chance.
     
  34. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Russell, I must be getting senile what with all the white hair and the like. I have shown you the same stack of dials two times in this thread, 6 months apart, and still, have not dug them out and measured them for you. Sorry about that. What did I have for lunch yesterday?
     
  35. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    lol, its ok, when ever you get the chance to I would be grateful.
     
  36. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I had a groaner dial restored and the hole filled should do nicely on my henry terry until I can find a suitable replacement

    Dial Restoration 16-07-2010 196[4418].JPG Dial Restoration 16-07-2010 198[4419].JPG
     
  37. Russell Dickson

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