Helping hand needed

[LedZep]

Hello, I just finished disassembling, cleaning & reassembling one of my newest acquisitions. Everything went well until I got to the point of reinstalling the hands. The minute hand was loose and had slack. As it turned out my poor eyesight didn't help matters. Two little washers had fallen on the short pile rug when I took the hands off. I was able to find them but now I'm not sure where they go in relation to the hands. One of the washers appears to be curved slightly while the other is completely flat. If anyone knows where are these washers are supposed to fit in I'd appreciate some help with that. Thank you in advance!!

 

[KurtinSA]

Looks like your dial will have to come off again! The "bent" washer goes first onto the minute arbor, with the concave part facing you. Then goes the flat washer. You then reassemble the motion works and put the hands on. Finally, the domed washer goes on and you should have some springiness when you push on the domed washer...that is due to the "bent" washer you first put on. Push down on the domed washer just so you can push the small pin into the hole in the end of the minute arbor. Be very, very careful the pin doesn't go flying off somewhere! DAMHIK!

Nice job cleaning that up!! I have the identical clock I think...coppery colored.

Kurt

 

[LedZep]

Looks like your dial will have to come off again! The "bent" washer goes first onto the minute arbor, with the concave part facing you. Then goes the flat washer. You then reassemble the motion works and put the hands on. Finally, the domed washer goes on and you should have some springiness when you push on the domed washer...that is due to the "bent" washer you first put on. Push down on the domed washer just so you can push the small pin into the hole in the end of the minute arbor. Be very, very careful the pin doesn't go flying off somewhere! DAMHIK!

Nice job cleaning that up!! I have the identical clock I think...coppery colored.

Kurt

Wait..... You are saying that those two little washers go BEHIND the clock face? Now I am embarrassed to admit that I never removed the face when cleaning it up. On this copper beauty, I removed the back plate and gears and main spring barrel (the spring was unhooked from the winding arbor when I got it). But I never removed the face. I am VERY green, I have obtained 7, all of which needed cleaning and really nothing more than a new suspension spring, top or bottom blocks a setting the beat to get running. I've never even opened a main spring barrel until a week ago! Baby steps. So to be clear, those two little washers go on the minute arbor behind the dial; between the dial and movement plate?

 

[KurtinSA]

OK, that's a good part of the story! I think the problem is going to be where you said you removed all the gears/arbors but didn't remove the dial. If you remove the center arbor, the one that has the hour and minute hands around, you will have undone the arrangement of the components of the motion works under the dial. Those items consist of the cannon pinion, the hour pipe, and the intermediate wheel. On my first picture (of a clock similar to yours), you can see the intermediate wheel on the right...it's actually held in place by clip over the post. The hour pipe (the bigger wheel) and the cannon pinion (it is inside the hour pipe), will come loose and can move around on their own. My second image is all the wheels removed and the two washers I talked about...the concave one and the flat one. It would be highly unlikely that when inserting the center arbor, you would be able to get all those back on. If you were to remove the center arbor and move the clock around even a little, I could see where the small washers would have fallen to the side and even out from behind the dial and onto the floor.

I'm not sure there's really any other explanation. Maybe someone has some better solutions. There are drawings floating around here where someone has put a sketch showing the ordering of these parts. I just don't know where it is.

Kurt

 

[LedZep]

That all made perfect sense to me, thank you so much for the pictures, which work very well for me! Guess I will be trying my hand at removing the dial tomorrow, any tips on getting those pins out without scratching the plate or damaging a gear?

 

[Schatznut]

That all made perfect sense to me, thank you so much for the pictures, which work very well for me! Guess I will be trying my hand at removing the dial tomorrow, any tips on getting those pins out without scratching the plate or damaging a gear?

If you have a pair of long, thin needle-nose pliers, you can give the pin a squeeze to loosen it. As Kurt said, be careful because the pins can come out abruptly and go flying off into the shag carpet.

 

[LedZep]

Thanks Schatznut, I will give it a try, thank you for the help. And thank you too Kurt!

 

[KurtinSA]

It happens to me that I cannot remove those pins while the clock is together...they've been in too long or corroded in place. So, what I have to do is carefully set the dial down on two pieces of 2x4 and remove the back plate, along with the barrel and all the arbors. Then I have access to the pins. I use a pair of regular pliers, in this case a small set of channel locks which I can adjust the jaws, and find a position where I can push on the small end of a pin while holding the jaws on one of the protruding feet of the dial. If I'm lucky the pin will pop out. I have a few pieces of very thin brass which I can lay down on the inside of the front plate to keep the pliers from scraping across the plate.

A tip when reusing the pins...or even if you using a new pin. Give them a small bend in the middle. That way, when they go in and jam to hold the dial in, the body of the pin isn't lying right next to the plate. If it's off the plate a bit because of the bend, then it's easier the next time and you should be able to get full purchase with a pair of needle nose pliers on the fat end of the pin and give it a good pull.

Kurt

 

[Wayne A]

To get ones out that are really stuck I use the mid size vicegrip needle nose. Give them a grip and a little twist and they come out. Like Kurt said a little bend in them helps. Problem with some clocks is you don't have enough room to use the post to pin plyers press out technique, so its vicegrip time.

 

[LedZep]

I was successful at removing the face and replacing the little washers where they belonged. I have now had the clock running for an hour and a half. It's now 10 minutes fast. What's blowing my mind though is how slowly the pendulum is turning and how little it actually turns. It's swing is only a little more than a quarter turn. I have three other Kundos and none of them swing this little. I'm thinking this is not normal. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

 

[KurtinSA]

Not a long enough video to really see it all, but it looks like the pendulum rotated at least 180 degrees. Remember though that it's not about the amount of rotation, but how much it rotates after you hear the tick when going in either direction...that's over swing. It's important to have a sufficient amount of over swing, say around 25-30 degrees at least. If you have a lot of over swing, say 50 degrees, you can raise the fork which will reduce the over swing but add in more rotation. The reverse happens if you lower the fork...you lose total rotation but gain some over swing.

Kurt

 

[LedZep]

I couldn't manage to take a longer video that I could download here, told me the file was too big. Anyway again, I appreciate the help, I will play around with it and see what I can do. Thanks Kurt!