Help with W. Brocking wall clock

[flatlander10]

Hello,
My In-Laws pulled another clock out of their basement and on the face plate it says W. Brocking and below that it says Hamburg.
It is a wooden frame with three glass sides and fancy crown on top.
It is a spring driven pendulum movement one for time and one for the chime.

It appears to be running great except the chime doesn't work.
What I discovered is that there is a tiny or very small gauge pin that engages a star wheel and by doing so lifts the hammers to strike the chimes.
This tiny pin has been previously broken off. Thus no chimes.

What do I need to press the broken pin out and to figure out what to replace it with?

I realize that this may not be the proper place to ask this question so here it goes.
Can anybody give me any info on W. Brocking clocks? I have tried searching the Forums to no avail.

Thanks,
Flatlander10

 

[Richard T.]

Hello Flatlander,

It would help if you could post some photos of the clock. The name on the dial is most likely the retailer that sold the clock. If you look on the back of the clock works, there may be a trademark or other information. Let us know what's there.

Your clock is a striking clock and not a chiming clock if it only has two springs. Chiming clocks play part of a tune, usually at each quarter hour. That's just a terminology thing but it helps us know what we are talking about.

A photo of the area where the "pin" is broken would help also. From what you are saying, the clock movement would need to be disassembled in order to replace the pin. The remains of the old pin could be driven out and a new one of the proper size driven in (friction fit).

Before getting to the point of taking anything apart, you should be sure you understand what is involved in securing the mainsprings so that they do not cause any damage if inadvertently released.

Let us know about any information you find before doing anything else.

Best,

Richard T.

 

[shutterbug]

I agree with Richard's assessment. The pin can't be fixed without removing the wheel. It might be time to consider a complete servicing of the clock. A piece of pivot wire of the same size would work as a replacement.

 

[flatlander10]

Hello Flatlander,

It would help if you could post some photos of the clock. The name on the dial is most likely the retailer that sold the clock. If you look on the back of the clock works, there may be a trademark or other information. Let us know what's there.

Your clock is a striking clock and not a chiming clock if it only has two springs. Chiming clocks play part of a tune, usually at each quarter hour. That's just a terminology thing but it helps us know what we are talking about.

A photo of the area where the "pin" is broken would help also. From what you are saying, the clock movement would need to be disassembled in order to replace the pin. The remains of the old pin could be driven out and a new one of the proper size driven in (friction fit).

Before getting to the point of taking anything apart, you should be sure you understand what is involved in securing the mainsprings so that they do not cause any damage if inadvertently released.

Let us know about any information you find before doing anything else.

Best,

Richard T.

Thanks for the response,

The clock at this moment is 100 miles away so at this time I cannot show nor take any pictures. I do realize that pictures would greatly increase the accuracy of the answers but reluctantly at this time I cannot provide them.

Actually this little pin is pressed through a hole in the pivot shaft the hammers are mounted to. And thank you for correcting me on the differences between chimes and striking gong.

This operation would be relatively easy cause it is mounted very close to the edge between the plates. So there is alot of room to work around.

I know that without pictures these questions are hard to answer but given that I do have easy access to driving out the broken pin, what do I use in doing so. can I drift it out or does it need to be pressed out and what tool would be used for either method?
This pin is about the diameter of a stick pin or small sowing needle, to give you an idea of what I was looking at.

Thanks,
Flatlander10

 

[Richard T.]

Hello Flatlander,

Thanks for the response. Yes, photos would be helpful. I thought you were talking about the hammer arbor and the pin/paddle that interacts with the "star" wheel normally on the S3 gear.

In order to cause the strike, a "paddle" for lack of better terminology, is raised by the points of the star wheel and when it drops off the hammer head strikes a gong (in this case).

You might be able to do this without taking the moement apart.......just depends. I normally use a piece of pivot wire (available from clock supply houses) and form the paddle shape on one end with a hammer/anvil. If there are any remains of the pin/paddle you could measure it and see what the correct size was.........otherwise a piece that fits the hole in the arbor correctly.

The only problem I see is the remains of the pin may need to come out from inside to outside. You wouldn't be able to do that with the movement assembled.

Below are photos of one that I am working on at the present, it is German as well.

Best,

Richard T.

 

[flatlander10]

Hello Flatlander,

Thanks for the response. Yes, photos would be helpful. I thought you were talking about the hammer arbor and the pin/paddle that interacts with the "star" wheel normally on the S3 gear.

In order to cause the strike, a "paddle" for lack of better terminology, is raised by the points of the star wheel and when it drops off the hammer head strikes a gong (in this case).

You might be able to do this without taking the moement apart.......just depends. I normally use a piece of pivot wire (available from clock supply houses) and form the paddle shape on one end with a hammer/anvil. If there are any remains of the pin/paddle you could measure it and see what the correct size was.........otherwise a piece that fits the hole in the arbor correctly.

The only problem I see is the remains of the pin may need to come out from inside to outside. You wouldn't be able to do that with the movement assembled.

Below are photos of one that I am working on at the present, it is German as well.

Best,

Richard T.

Hello,
The star wheel is a little different but performs similar to yours.
My starwheel actually is circular in nature but has prongs at 90% to the surface and these prongs are what catches this little pin to actuate the hammers. The starwheel is parallel to the front plate and the hammer arbor pivots on the front and back plate. I think we are on the page here. What I just pictured in my head, I was thinking about the starwheel on a Regula Cuckoo movement that actuates the hammer as well as lifts the bellow wires. This is exactly how this movement actuates the hammers as well. Also the starwheel looks the same in design to the one on the Regula movement relatively speaking.

Now I hope my terminology is correct here. The arbor is what the hammer arms are attached to and this broken pin is also installed in the same arbor.

Now my problem is what method do I use to remove the broken pin for it is flush with the arbor meaning gripping with pliers won't work. I would think that it would need to be driven out by pressing it out or punching it out using a hammer and punch if there is one made that small diameter. if pressing it out what tools are available for either remedy?
This pin appears to have no taper to it.

Thanks for all your help,

Flatlander10

 

[flatlander10]

Here are some pictures of the mentioned W. Brocking Hamburgclock.
Hopefully this weekend I will try to get pictures of the movement and pivot area in question.
Fortunately the movement is simply removed by lifting up and disengage the pendulum,
then two thumb screws and the movement slides out of its bracket.




Thanks,
Flatlander10

 

[R&A]

The spring wire if not staked in place will work loose. This is not always an easy fix with the movement together. If the pin has broken off. You need to drive it out from directly above the hole from the inside of the plate. Hard to do with the plates together. This will be applied if the pin is broken off flush. If there is a small amount sticking out then by all means try to remove it with the moment together. If the arbor for the pick up for the hammer is not in the way you will have it licked. But there are different circumstances to each situation. A needle will be to strong, and rob to much power from the movement. You need a piece of pivot steel that is about .0021 in diameter or smaller. I take and put a small flat on one end and then slide the pivot still through the hole. The flat then locks the wire in place when it meets the plate. Then take the wire and hook it onto the spring retaining hook on the arbor. This then will need to be tested to the movement. You'll have to see if the movement can drive the hammer at this point. If there is a slow hammer pick up or a power loss,then the wire will need to be adjusted. Power loss can also come form the movement needing service, or a weak spring.

H/C

 

[flatlander10]

Thanks for all responses,
Pictures of the movement and area in question will be posted later today

Does anybody have info on this clock, such as history, builder, price range?

Flatlander10

 

[flatlander10]

Here are the pictures of the movement. One picture displays the area in question.

flatlander10

 

[shutterbug]

You have a good pic of what it should look like on the strike hammer. Remove it from the clock, punch it out of the arbor, install a new one and hook that spring over it when putting it back.

 

[R&A]

It's the tension spring hook for the strike.When you replace it it has to have a hook on the end so the spring doesn't slip off.

H/C

 

[JTD]

As others have said, Brocking was the retailer in Hamburg who sold the clock. The movement is marked LENZKIRCH a noted manufacturer of good clocks. The serial number will help to define the date - there are many knowledgeable Lenzkirch experts on this board and I am sure that one will come along and help with the date.

It's a nice clock but badly needs a complete clean - see all that black crud round the arbor? Well worth doing it properly (or having it done) and then you will have a very nice clock.
Good luck.
JTD

 

[Jay Fortner]

Judging by all the green I'd say it's had the WD treatment. Really needs and deserves a proper service.

 

[flatlander10]

Judging by all the green I'd say it's had the WD treatment. Really needs and deserves a proper service.

Yes, the movement does appear to have been slimed.
It is in my Father-n-Laws possession at the moment and he is somewhat of a stubborn German.
He believes if it works don't fix it. Who am I to argue?
The clock is the way he received it from another family member many years ago and upon receiving it,
He put it storage in his basement.
Anyway, I'm working on modifying a device that very well may work to push or drive the pin out.
Then I'll be able to determine the gauge that it is.
So far the clock works flawlessly and keeps excellent time so for now I will leave well enough alone.
Now about the clock. I've read in another thread about the maker of this movement with the markings
of 2Q, 2 or B. This movement appears to have a 2 stamped on it.
Can anybody give information about this clock and/or movement such as history or age and perhaps value?
Thanks,
flatlander10

 

[shutterbug]

We aren't allowed to make valuations on this part of the board. There is a special section just for that, though. I'd really discourage trying to work on the part while it's in the movement. You might ruin the part or adjoining parts in the process. Your movement needs at least one bushing too. As others have said, it's a quality movement deserving of a proper cleaning and overhaul. You might be able to do it yourself given some learning and tools. If not, get some estimates and do it right. A complete service will also raise the value of the clock....which is certainly worth more than the service will cost.

 

[flatlander10]

Can anybody date this clock? thanks, flatlander10

 

[LenzkirchFan]

Hi flantlander10, That is a nice Lenzkirch clock. Unfortunately, there are very few Lenzkirch serial numbers that we can pin down to an exact year of manufacture. George Everett has come up with a dating schedule by serial number in his book, Lenzkirch Clocks: The Unsigned Story. By looking at his schedule, your clock was made in 1890. As I mentioned, very few serial numbers can be pinned down to an exact year and George will tell you that his is only a close estimate. Personally, I feel that if you take two years before 1890 and two years after 1890, you will have a very close period when your clock was manufactured. Some people want exact dates but if the clock was mine, I would be satisfied to say that it was made between 1888 and 1892 and I bet you would be very close.

LenzkirchFan

 

[flatlander10]

Thanks LenzkirchFan,
I appreciate the response. My In-Laws will love the news.
They say it keeps perfect time and yes I would agree that the movement needs cleaning.
It is another one of their clocks in the basement storage. I would love to drive out that pin and once
again hear the strike gong.
They tell me I will not get another clock to clean and oil till I fix the 1 day yarn spinning cuckoo clock.
The transmission for a lack of a better discription is locked up, perhaps needing bushing work. This drives
the pully to operate the yarn spinning animation.
I don't have the tools for that kind of service. On this one I also need to locate a drive belt to drive
the external wool spinning animation.
Again thanks for the approximate dating of their Lenzkirch clock.
flatlander10