Help With ID and Date

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by Joseph Bautsch, Feb 27, 2019.

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  1. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    I recently aquired this 30 hr time and strike single chain works and dial. I've determined that its English by the name of the city on the front, Newcastle. I can't make out the rest of the label which is likely the name of the retailer. The initials look like D R and the first letter of the name looks like a D and the last letter is an S. The second wheel pinion on the time side is broken off as well as the tip of the bell stand, which require repair. If there is someone who recognizes the writing on the dial and can decipher the words it would be appreciated. An approximate date would also be appreciated.

    GF 1.jpeg GF 2.jpeg GF 3.jpeg
     
  2. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

    Jan 2, 2015
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    There are two Newcastles in England (possibly more) where clocks were made - Newcastle upon Tyne in Northumberland (the now more famous city) and Newcastle Under Lyme in Staffordshire. Could the word after Newcastle be "Under"? If so it is a Staffordshire clock. I'm not an expert on painted dial clocks but I would guess it's from the first half of the 19th Century.
     
  3. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

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    Just looked up Newcastle Under Lyme clockmakers in Joseph McKenna's Clockmakers and Watchmakers of Central England and can't see any obvious matches. The only surnames starting with D which have an S in them are William Dawson and William Downs and I can find no maker with the initials D R, whatever their surname. Unfortunately I don't have any reference books covering Northumberland.
     
  4. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

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    Earlier painted dials tended to have a wider minute rings with the minute numbers 5, 10, 15 etc corresponding to the hour marks. The narrow minute ring and Roman numerals for the hours suggests a date after around 1830. The date aperture is characteristic of the period.
     
  5. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    I can't make out the letters on the dial so not much point speculating on what it might say, perhaps a uv light may help. I'd think the dial dates to around 1810-30 though it has some features that are typically earlier such as the curved date aperture and no full minute band.
     
  6. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

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    My thinking that it was unlikely to be earlier than 1830 was based on this:
    http://www.clock-repair-huddersfield.co.uk/how-to-date-longcase-or-grandfather-clock-dials
    which suggests to me it is "period 3". There are a couple of books which may be of use: Brian Loomes Painted dial clocks and MF Tennant Longcase painted dials: their history and restoration
     
  7. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    Thanks for the information. All you have been a great help. I will use a UV light and see if I can get more of the name to come up. After reviewing the Huddersfield web site I tend to agree with Nigel that this is most likely a period 3 clock 1830+.
     
  8. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    I've ordered a UV lamp. I'll let you know how it works.
     
  9. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    NigelW likes this.
  10. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

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    Not having this book I defer to your greater knowledge.

    I looked up Newcastle upon Tyne in Loomes's Clockmakers of Northern England and found no likely candidates but I am not sure how comprehensive it is. What struck me however was that there seemed to be many fewer names associated with that city than with Newcastle Under Lyme. Was the latter a more important clockmaking centre?
     
  11. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    #11 jmclaugh, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    I don't think the book is expensive second hand so you could always buy a copy and make your own mind up on dating. While it is often obvious which of the 3 periods a clock fits in it often isn't.

    I haven't cross anything that says either Newcastle was a large clockmaking centre so sorry I can't be of any help.
     
  12. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    The UV light was of no help. Nothing more came up when the dial was lit up with it. You guys have been most helpful. Thanks very much.
     
  13. NigelW

    NigelW Registered User

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    Just looked again at my copy Joseph McKenna's Clockmakers and watchmakers of central England. On p.109 it says:

    "Eighteenth-century Newcastle-under-Lyme supported more watchmakers and clockmakers than any other provincial town, with the exception of Birmingham." On p. 110 he adds "The Staffordshire Directory of 1818 shows Newcastle clockmaking at its height, but it was a precarious livelihood..... The decline of the Newcastle-under-Lyme clock trade was sealed by 1845, with the import of cheap Swiss and French clocks. The influx of American clocks following the culmination of the Civil War, saw its death. By 1900 there was only one clockmaker in Newcastle, and he was selling imported clocks and carrying out repair work."

    An ancestor of mine was a clockmaker in this Newcastle. John Swinnerton was the second of three brothers. I have never seen a clock signed by him but I have a lantern clock from c. 1680 signed by his older brother, Thomas.
     
  14. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    Great information, thanks for following up.
     

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