Help with Emperor-Jauch moon dial mantel clock.

stormchasingk9

Registered User
Apr 19, 2014
13
0
0
I bought an Emperor moon dial mantle clock recently. It was described as parts/repairs, given the previous buyer received it with the case broken and the movement having detached from the case. However, aside from a broken suspension spring (which is why there's no pendulum atm) it works perfectly well.

However, I can't get the moon dial to function and after further inspection it appears there's no moon dial gear/advance on it. Where would I find one?

IMG_1313.jpg
IMG_1314.jpg
IMG_1312.jpg
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
14,335
1,595
113
Stor,

Before you spend a lot of time searching for the drive gear, let the power down completely and check for wear at the hand shaft. Many of these moon dial drive gears are removed to allow the clock to run with moderate to severe wear at the hand shaft, at the front and/or back plate. This wear causes the drive gear to jam into the dial gearing. If your clock has plastic moon dial gearing, this also could be the reason that the drive gear was removed.

Hope this helps, Willie X
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
46,950
1,996
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Could we have a look at the back side of the moon dial?
 

stormchasingk9

Registered User
Apr 19, 2014
13
0
0
When my suspension spring part comes in, I'll pull the movement out again and take more pictures of the moon dial and front of the movement. It's running without the pendulum atm so when it winds down I'll be sure to check the hand shaft. Thank you for the help/suggestions.
 

stormchasingk9

Registered User
Apr 19, 2014
13
0
0
Bah, suspension spring is the wrong size. Anyhow, decided to just set this clock on the shelf as a non-working thing. Will try to fix it later in the future. Right now I just want nothing to do with it. Moon dial doesn't work, suspension spring needs replacement, and it needs to be cleaned/oiled as the hour chiming gets stuck and turns it into a "bim bam" quarterly chime clock. -sigh-

Thanks for the help/suggestions, whenever I decide to dwelve back into this money pit I know where to turn. :)
 

stormchasingk9

Registered User
Apr 19, 2014
13
0
0
Alright, decided I wanted to give this clock another attempt at self repair.

I took some more photos, including the requested one. If there's any other photos needed, please ask. Right now, all I know is that the movement needs a suspension spring, which I don't know where to get and it needs a moon dial pen for the hand shaft in order to make the moon dial function. Any advice/help? Thank you for looking.

IMG_1515.jpg IMG_1516.jpg IMG_1517.jpg IMG_1518.jpg

Edit: Here's a video if it's chiming, and the "sticking hammers" problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fo__GZQKhA
 
Last edited:

chimeclockfan

NAWCC Member
Dec 21, 2006
4,603
475
83
WI
Country
Region
This is an E. Jauch movement. Emperor had a deal with E. Jauch to have movement stock shipped to the USA and assembled in-house - much of the staff was handicapped, a fact touted by Emperor themselves. This arrangement ended once Hermle set up a movement factory in the USA in late 1978. E. Jauch's lone source of business was their work with Emperor, so they succumbed shortly afterwards. The movements are comparable to a Hermle of the period. These Emperor mantel clocks with the E. Jauch movements are less common than those with Hermle movements.

Ensure there is no dry oil on the hammers, and that they are adjusted to strike each rod correctly. Gently bend each hammer until they hit each rod.

These Emperor mantel clocks (I don't recall the model name/number) vaguely resemble the hood portion of their more popular floor clocks - it's a typical repro style, but it would make for a pleasant clock once restored to working order. They came in Oak or Walnut.
 

Walt Wallgren

NAWCC Member
Aug 16, 2012
1,214
31
48
Bay Area, California
Country
Region
Hi Stormy,

Welcome to the message board.

I feel your pain. I searched for YEARS to find chain for what is probably the same movement in what used to be my father-in-law's clock before he passed and it then came to my wife and me. I finally stumbled across this guy who used to work for Emperor and has a good supply of Jauch parts from doing conversions. Nice guy, i talked with hime several times. I believe he should have any parts you need. Here is his info. I thought I had his phone number but am not finding it. He was very good with responding to email when we worked together a year ago. Also, at that time he did have the correct suspension spring in stock.

John Newman
THE VILLAGE CLOCKSMITH
Old Prattvillage
Historic Downtown Prattville
Alabama

klokdok@juno.com


Hope this helps,
Walt
 

Tinker Dwight

Registered User
Oct 11, 2010
13,666
77
0
Calif. USA
The rack tail is over the snail. Is there a stub of a pin
under the tail?
I'm wondering if it ever had a pin and the moon dial was
driven by the snail?
Any pin would need to be on the wheel behind the snail.
It might be just an alignment issue.
Tinker Dwight
 

stormchasingk9

Registered User
Apr 19, 2014
13
0
0
Thank you for the back story, chimeclockfan. I'm always eager to learn more about my clocks and their histories.

Thanks, Walt. I'll send an email to your guy and see if he can help me.

Tinker, here's a couple more photos from the sides. There's no pin on the hand shaft and there isn't any pins nearby that'd touch the lever on the dial. Also, I found a picture of what I think is the missing piece, though it's a picture of a grandfather sized one.

IMAG017.JPG IMG_1521.jpg IMG_1520.jpg

I'm new to clocks, so my knowledge is very small. Long as a clock is not on fire, it's serviceable, so I have a lot of room to improve. -laughs- That being said, the movement, despite being in need of a good clean, appears all original and in great shape. There's no noticeable wear on the hand shaft, so I'd assume whoever built it either didn't put the pin on, or maybe it started as a Tempus Fugit dial, and they replaced it with a Moon Dial not realizing they needed the pin and just never got around to adding one.

Could anyone give me an idea of how much it'd cost to take this movement to a professional to have it cleaned? I have a clock repair book that describes how to disassemble/clean it, but since it's spring powered, and I don't have the let-down chuck or spring-thingy it'd probably be best to leave it to a nearby professional and hope they do it correctly.
 

Tinker Dwight

Registered User
Oct 11, 2010
13,666
77
0
Calif. USA
Yep, that is the missing piece. It would go on the tube that the
hour hand goes on. Your moon dial is advanced twice a day ( each 12 hours ).
Look on the hour tube for marks where it may have originally been. It
isn't important where around it goes but it must be in such a position that
it doesn't hit the moon lever when you put it back together ( about 11 hours
distance that is safe ).
The Hour hand is put back on to match the hour strike.
Since your clock is a chime and strike, you need to be careful moving
the hands forward. You should allow the 1/4 chimes to complete.
before turning the hands more forward.
You also need to let the hour chime and strike complete.
Most of these clocks can have the hands turn backwards without
problems for setting but you'll not be able to count the strikes
turning that way.
In your picture, the rack tail has ridden up on the snail. You
should back up the minute hand until it is off the snail.
I'd suggest you lift the rack bit it looks like the strike has jammed
and the pin on the gathering pallet is engaged with the rack.
Forcing the rack like that would break the pin.
With the rack tail off the snail, you should be to get the
strike to complete the count. Both some winding and a light
touch to the strike fan should work. It may need cleaning
or other work to get it running well.
Most shops charge $50-$100 for each train for cleaning. Yours
has three trains. Repairs are extra on top of that.
You can make a letdown tool with a piece of 1.5 to 2 inch wood
dowel. You drill a hole in the end for the center of the key and
cut across it for the handle. You'd hold the key in place with
a rubber band or two.
I recommend wearing a garden glove while letting it down,
you'll have better control of the speed that way.
I you've never done a 3 train clock, I seriously recommend
starting with a simpler single train clock.
Should you wish to dive in anyway, make sure to take
pictures at each step ( most shops charge extra for
basket cases ).
Tinker Dwight
 

Jay Fortner

Registered User
Feb 5, 2011
5,067
34
48
Chiefland,Fl.
Country
Region
That part may work but the actual part was made from flat brass plate staked to a brass hub with a set screw in it. The leading edge of the edge of the cam was radiused and the trailing edge had a clean drop,much like the star cam on a center shaft. I've got one if you want it.
 

stormchasingk9

Registered User
Apr 19, 2014
13
0
0
Tinker, thank you for the information. Good eye on noticing the hour-train being stuck in an on position. It has a habit of getting stuck, and I usually just push down on the lever (that raises the hammers up) to allow it to finish counting and reset.

I was afraid it’d be expensive to repair, for $300 I might as well just replace it with a Hermle 351 movement which would run about $250. I could eliminate the pendulum/suspension spring issue by getting one with a floating-point balance escapement, and the moon dial, would just be for show since Hermle uses a geared tooth instead of a pin to advance the moon dial. Is there even any moon dials available for Hermle 351 movements? All I can find is round ones.

I’m thinking that once I get the suspension spring/moon dial pin, I’ll see if the movement works and re-oil it. If it doesn’t stay running, than I’ll just use the movement as a teaching tool. I have many clocks, and I really need to learn how to service them completely myself. Pretty much all my clocks are three trains and spring driven. It would really help if I knew how to completely disassemble them and repair them myself, and I’d appreciate them even more.

Jay, thank you for the offer on a part. I’ll get back to you, right now I’m waiting on a call from Walt’s friend about the parts.

Thank you everyone for the help/advice, every bit helps. :)
 

Tinker Dwight

Registered User
Oct 11, 2010
13,666
77
0
Calif. USA
The moon dial could be made to work with any movement. It
just need something to trigger it. Jay says it should have a
snail like cam. The load of the pin sticking out may be too
much for it. You can either make a cam or get one from Jay.
The main issue with a swap is to check the winder locations.
You don't need to use the Hermle gear, just something on the
tube for the hour hand ( which would be in the same location ).
Tinker Dwight
 

Forum statistics

Threads
167,107
Messages
1,456,201
Members
87,311
Latest member
darc
Encyclopedia Pages
1,057
Total wiki contributions
2,914
Last edit
E. Howard & Co. by Clint Geller