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Help with Black Forest Shield Clock

RickNB

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Sep 15, 2021
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I am working on an old Black Forest Sheild clock with wooden plates and brass wheels. The dial is round, not shield-shaped, and was fixed to the body of the clock with four hardware store angle brackets. I would like to put it back to it's original configuration, but I cannot determine how the face was fastened to the clock.

Pictures of rhte front and rear of the dial:

IMG_8168.JPG IMG_8169.JPG

And of the movement:

IMG_8167.JPG IMG_8166.JPG

FWIW, there is also a wood surround around the face that holds a brass bezel with domed glass. I wonder if this is original.

IMG_8171.JPG IMG_8174 2.JPG

There is a mark stamped into the upper edge of the movement. I assume it's a maker's mark. Anyone know who this might be?

IMG_8102 3.JPG IMG_8102 2.JPG
 

new2clocks

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Apr 25, 2005
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There is a mark stamped into the upper edge of the movement. I assume it's a maker's mark. Anyone know who this might be?
Hello, Rick, and welcome to the forum.

According to mikrolisk, the mark on your case is that of Alois Mayer of Schönenbach bei Furtwangen, Germany.

JTD provides some information on Mayer in the following thread.

German - AMS Cuckoo Movement | NAWCC Forums

Regards.
 

Uhralt

NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2008
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I am working on an old Black Forest Sheild clock with wooden plates and brass wheels. The dial is round, not shield-shaped, and was fixed to the body of the clock with four hardware store angle brackets. I would like to put it back to it's original configuration, but I cannot determine how the face was fastened to the clock.

Pictures of rhte front and rear of the dial:

View attachment 671813 View attachment 671815

And of the movement:

View attachment 671814 View attachment 671816

FWIW, there is also a wood surround around the face that holds a brass bezel with domed glass. I wonder if this is original.

View attachment 671817 View attachment 671818

There is a mark stamped into the upper edge of the movement. I assume it's a maker's mark. Anyone know who this might be?

View attachment 671822 View attachment 671819
The wooden dial surround, the brass bezel and the domed glass are original. The dial is usually attached to the movement by 4 pins that are inserted in a sharp angle into holes in the back of the dial. The movement should have 4 small metal tabs in the front top and bottom boards of the movement frame. these tabs had holes through which the pins were pushed. Unfortunately the tabs seem to be gone, either pulled out or broken or sawn off. probably it would be best tolve with the solution you have right now. If the ntabs have been pulled you may be able to make your own and insert them in the remaining slots.

Uhralt
 

RickNB

Registered User
Sep 15, 2021
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The wooden dial surround, the brass bezel and the domed glass are original. The dial is usually attached to the movement by 4 pins that are inserted in a sharp angle into holes in the back of the dial. The movement should have 4 small metal tabs in the front top and bottom boards of the movement frame. these tabs had holes through which the pins were pushed. Unfortunately the tabs seem to be gone, either pulled out or broken or sawn off. probably it would be best tolve with the solution you have right now. If the ntabs have been pulled you may be able to make your own and insert them in the remaining slots.

Uhralt
Thanks for that. Do you know where I could see pictures of that tab arrangement?
 

RickNB

Registered User
Sep 15, 2021
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Hello, Rick, and welcome to the forum.

According to mikrolisk, the mark on your case is that of Alois Mayer of Schönenbach bei Furtwangen, Germany.

JTD provides some information on Mayer in the following thread.

German - AMS Cuckoo Movement | NAWCC Forums

Regards.
HAH! Another case of faulty family history! The previous owner, from Scotland, believed the clock had been in his family for generations since the early to mid 1800's. It's condition suggested it might be that old - and neglected. I'm not disappointed - I'm not out of pocket since it was given to me. It's a very unsophisticated (rustic) clock, noisy as heck but unstoppable once I cleaned it. The pendulum has enough energy to slay any horse that strays too near!
 

Uhralt

NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2008
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HAH! Another case of faulty family history! The previous owner, from Scotland, believed the clock had been in his family for generations since the early to mid 1800's. It's condition suggested it might be that old - and neglected. I'm not disappointed - I'm not out of pocket since it was given to me. It's a very unsophisticated (rustic) clock, noisy as heck but unstoppable once I cleaned it. The pendulum has enough energy to slay any horse that strays too near!
The family history may be closer to the truth than you think. These Black Forest clocks with the round dial were specifically made for the export to England. The style reminds you of the English "Dial" clock. The time the previous owner told you may be slightly off, according to the movement the clock was probably made closer to 1860.

Uhralt
 

Uhralt

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Sep 4, 2008
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Thanks for that. Do you know where I could see pictures of that tab arrangement?
I will try to take a picture from my similar but older clock, from the side behind the dial and post it here.

Uhralt
 

Uhralt

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Sep 4, 2008
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Here is the picture of my clock's dial mount. The movement has wheels with wooden arbors that indicate it was made earlier, around 1810.

Uhralt Black Forest Clock.JPG
 

RickNB

Registered User
Sep 15, 2021
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Here is the picture of my clock's dial mount. The movement has wheels with wooden arbors that indicate it was made earlier, around 1810.

Uhralt View attachment 671981
Thank you for this Uhralt, and for the post about the clock's date. I now unders tand how the dial was fastened - there are small recesses cut into the back of the dial that the tab would go into to facilitate the insertion of the pin. And it's good to know about these clocks being made for the English market.
 

RickNB

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Sep 15, 2021
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I have replicated the metal tabs and fixed the dial to the movement. I don't think I can rely on it to hold well though - the back of the dial is badly chewed up and broken away where the pins would go..
My next problem is the bob. I have the face of the bob, which is a thin brass sheet about 4 inches in diameter, slightly domed. But there is very little weight to it. It has tabs top and bottom for the pendulum rod (in this case a flat brass strip) and for the threaded rod for the regulating nut. I assume there would be a disk behind the brass face but it is missing. Any pics of the missing piece?
 

Uhralt

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Sep 4, 2008
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I have replicated the metal tabs and fixed the dial to the movement. I don't think I can rely on it to hold well though - the back of the dial is badly chewed up and broken away where the pins would go..
My next problem is the bob. I have the face of the bob, which is a thin brass sheet about 4 inches in diameter, slightly domed. But there is very little weight to it. It has tabs top and bottom for the pendulum rod (in this case a flat brass strip) and for the threaded rod for the regulating nut. I assume there would be a disk behind the brass face but it is missing. Any pics of the missing piece?
That's unfortunate and probably the reason why a different method to hold the dial has been applied but it's nice to have the tabs back. With regard to the pendulum, pictures of what you have would be helpful. However, the pendulum is usually just as you described, no additional disk. The pendulum bobs are generally not very heavy, putting less stress on the pendulum suspension wires.

Uhralt
 

RickNB

Registered User
Sep 15, 2021
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I was beginning to suspect that there was not supposed to be any additional weight to the bob. I had fashioned an additional weight but with it raised to the highest position the clock ran more than 30 minute slow in 24 hours. That told me that the centre of gravity was still too low and that a lighter bob would effectively raise the centre of gravity. I have removed the additional weight now.

All that remains to do is to fashion a latch tab for the bezel and replace the glass. For reference, here are pics of the bob, front and back. Noteworthy on the back are the scratch-scribed "8 CALEDONIANMH?" and separately etched "15".

IMG_8176.JPG IMG_8177.JPG IMG_8178.JPG
Caledonian.jpg Number 15.jpg
 

Uhralt

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Sep 4, 2008
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That pendulum bob looks correct. One often finds concentric circles as decoration on Black Forest clock pendulum bobs. I also have seen a slice of cork wedged between the back of the bob and the rod to secure the bob. Most of the time there is no regulating nut. Instead of the cork I have also seen a small wooden wedge.

Not sure what the scratching means, other than that caledonian refers to Scotland.

Uhralt
 

RickNB

Registered User
Sep 15, 2021
25
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That pendulum bob looks correct. One often finds concentric circles as decoration on Black Forest clock pendulum bobs. I also have seen a slice of cork wedged between the back of the bob and the rod to secure the bob. Most of the time there is no regulating nut. Instead of the cork I have also seen a small wooden wedge.

Not sure what the scratching means, other than that caledonian refers to Scotland.

Uhralt
This clock had a square brass regulating nut, small and rather crude. I figure must be right since the tail rod is threaded. I can see putting a cork between bob and rod to eliminate the rattle of that thin bob. The clock is loud enough without that annoying bit of rattle.
 

Mike Phelan

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Dec 17, 2003
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I also have seen a slice of cork wedged between the back of the bob and the rod to secure the bob. Most of the time there is no regulating nut. Instead of the cork I have also seen a small wooden wedge.

Uhralt
As per my post #12 :emoji_slight_smile:
 

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