Help with Ball Commercial Standard

[watchman4831]

I just obtained a Waltham Ball Comercial Standard 16S watch with a serial number B846397 and a starwheel regulator. The number under the arm matches. I can't seem to find any information. Can anyone direct me in the right directionto figure this out.

 

[Larry Treiman]

Hi watchman4931,

Your 16-size, open-face, 15-jewel Ball Commercial is from the Waltham Ser. No. run, 9846001-9846500, which was a mixed run of 15-17 jewel Ball Commercial-grade, open-face watches, and were adjusted to temperature. I'm not sure if I have ever seen one before with the star-wheel Waltham regulator. It is an early example, and apparently they had not yet switched to the whiplash spring regulator.

What are you trying to figure out about the watch? Please follow up (add as a reply. Start by clicking the box with the quill pen at the bottom of the post, at the far right) and we'll try to help.

Larry Treiman

 

[Larry Treiman]

I forgot to mention, in case anyone is wondering, that "commercial" or "commercial grade" were terms sometimes used in the watch industry to indicate watches that were not intended to meet railroad watch inspection standards.

The various Ball Commercial Standard watches in 18, 16 and 12-size were sold to those who wanted a Ball watch, but who didn't have to meet railroad inspection standards. There was also a Swiss version, perhaps in the late 1950s or early 1960s. Later, maybe in the early 1970s, Ball also offered a Swiss-made Commercial wristwatch, that had the RR-style dial but didn't pass inspection. I was told that they were being sold to bus drivers.

Is your watch in a Ball-marked case?

Larry Treiman

 

[watchman4831]

Larry:
Thanks for the help. It is a 17J and I also never seen another with the star wheel regulator, could be very unusual. In other words the first digit was dropped and a "b" was put in its place. I am going to list this on eBay for an elderly friend who found it in her husbands belongings after he passed away.

 

[Larry Treiman]

This watch had 15 jewels when it left the factory, and as far as I can tell from your photo it still does. I see what looks like a bushing where the center jewel would be in either a 16 or 17 jewel Ball Commercial, but if you see a jewel on the center arbor, then maybe some watchmaker reamed out the bushing and put in a modern friction jewel. I don't see it. Furthermore, factory center jewels on these Ball Commercial watches would be in settings and all that I have seen were held by three jewel screws. Also, the 17-jewel Ball Commercial Standards that I have seen were marked 17-jewels. My 16-size, 15-jewel (about a year newer than your friend's watch) is also not marked and has a "whip-lash" regulator.

As you say, the star wheel regulator is uncommon. It was probably only used on the early ones, but I haven't looked at that many Ball Comm. Std. watches in over 40 years of collecting railroad watches. Check out that center arbor with a loupe to be sure. Is it possible that you are mistaking dried oil for a jewel? It would be too bad if someone messed with it, because the 15-jewel Ball Commercials are MUCH less common than the 17-jewel version! But be careful that whatever it turns out to be, you are certain and don't misrepresent it!

Larry

 

[watchman4831]

Larry:
Thanks again. I was looking at another watch and confused the two, it is a 15 jewel. I pulled the dial to be sure. It looks all correct. Anyway it is really unusual and someone should enjoy it. Thanks for your help on the serial number, I assume that they dropped the 9 and added a "b" and would date it at 1900.

 

[Larry Treiman]

Yes, watchman, for the watch in question, and the others with Waltham serial numbers in the 9 millions and earlier, they dropped the millions place, and put a "B" prefix in front of the remaining six digits. However, for Balls with Waltham numbers in the 10 millions, they seem to have often dropped just the one and left a seven digit number starting with "0" with the B prefix, but I can't locate my research file on that; I'm rearranging a lot of "stuff." Eventually they settled down to dropping the numbers in the 10 millions and millions place, and using the last 6 digits of the Waltham s.n. with a B prefix.

As for the date, 1900 is about as close as one can come, and it is based on the Waltham production date. However, it is hard to be sure, especially for Waltham Ball production. It would probably be best to say "circa 1900."

Anyway, I'm glad you cleared up the question about the jeweling. Good luck with it.

Larry

 

[Jeff Hess]

Something struck me about this thread so I went to my research material and discovered that what you have is probaly not ony "right" but very possibly "rare".

I finally found it tonight in a copy of Walt Kroekers hand written Waltham research that I obtained a couple of years back.

In the extensive 4 page list, Walter has two astericks next to the serial numbers in your run.

"1900 B846001-500 commercial standard 15-17 jewels **"

the annotation for the two astericks are for this run only and notes that this run includes some with "original star regulators".

Congrats!

 

[watchman4831]

Thanks so much for the valuable information and your knowledge, my friend will appreciate the additional information I can add when I list her watch for sale on ebay in the next week or two.