Help with a Hentschel 210c (Identifying Movement)

Benyo4559

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Feb 26, 2021
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Friends,

I sincerely appreciate you taking your time to read this post.

A few months ago I inherited 2 grandfather clock kits in their original boxes from my grandfather who passed in 2011.

The 2 different clock kits were all mixed up together, but I eventually sorted them into the two clocks. One of the two, more complete, was what I had discovered to be a Hentschel 210 C (for cherry I believe). I have all the wood for the kit, and have been building it on and off for the last 3 months or so. However, I am having a hard time Identifying which movement I truly have. The Hentschel 210s were advertised with the 1000 T or W, which would lead me to believe that is what I have. However, on some of the boxes for this particular clock was written "2000 T" which is actually for a Hentschel model 400.

I would think, then, that maybe it was an incorrect movement. But that may not be the case, as on top of everything else I discovered an invoice my grandpap wrote where he purchased a model 220 (same clock case dimensions as 210c but with a different hood molding) with a 2100 T movement. Also, the cardboard box that the dial itself was in for years has "2100 T" written on the side. So do I have a 2100 T? I am not sure. I can't find the 2100 T movement even listed in the Hentschel catalog from 1977 or 78 that I have.

So to sum it up:

Can anyone help me identify the movement if I post photos of the movement, dial, clock case etc.?

Here's some additional info:

It is indeed a triple chime movement
It uses 12 chime rods, no bells.
It has "Original Kieninger" and "77" stamped on the back
No (0) Jewels unadjusted
Pendulum bob has a diameter of 6 5/8 inches. (if that helps)

The chime rods mounting holes do not line up with the countersunk holes on the chime rod support, which also makes me feel that I do not have a 1000 T on my hands.

I understand it may be near impossible to tell, so I appreciate any help or guidance. I sincerely appreciate your time in reading this very lengthy post, and for taking time to try and assist with this. The clock is one of the only things that was left to me by my pap, and I want to build it in his honor.

Thank you!

Ben

dial case 2100t.jpg low moon dial 2100t.jpg movement back.jpg movement back 2.jpg movement front.jpg clock case hentschel 210c.jpg
 

JTD

Registered User
Sep 27, 2005
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According to the Ontario BBB, Hentschel Clock company has gone out of business. The link that wow has given is not actually Hentschel's website, but they may be able to help.

JTD
 
Last edited:

Benyo4559

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Feb 26, 2021
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Thank you both so very much, and for the warm welcome. It would be much easier if I knew the dimensions of the 2100 T, which is what I will ask on that site. There is a possibility it is a movement for the other clock, but that seems unlikely since this movement uses chime rods and the clock kit comes with tubular bells.

I will reply to this thread if/when I discover anything. Thank you!!!

Ben
 

Benyo4559

NAWCC Member
Feb 26, 2021
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Unfortunately, I am unable to post to their website. It's almost as if the site has become archived or something. Thank you both for the advice! If anyone else stumbles across this and has success, please let me know.

Ben
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
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Benyo,
So, you have two cases and two movements?? At some point, It should become clear which movement goes into which case ...

That looks like a Kineinger RSU movement in the next to last photo but I'm not seeing 12 hammers on it. Might be the angle?

The kit factory's part numbers aren't going to help you. More photos of both movements and both cases (from the upper back) might help.

Tubular bell movements come pre mounted to a large steel hammer frame, on a plywood seat board about 8" wide. The bell chimers always require access from the upper back. So, there will be a large removable panel there. Not so on the triple chimer.T

The triple chimer will likely have a solid
plywood backboard and the cast iron chime block will attach with 4 machine screws through the backboard and into the iron block. It may, or may not, have some kind of spacer between the backboard and iron block. This block is needed on many clocks to get the hammers in line with the rods. Willie X
 
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Benyo4559

NAWCC Member
Feb 26, 2021
5
0
1
22
Country
Benyo,
So, you have two cases and two movements?? At some point, It should become clear which movement goes into which case ...

That looks like a Kineinger RSU movement in the next to last photo but I'm not seeing 12 hammers on it. Might be the angle?

The kit factory's part numbers aren't going to help you. More photos of both movements and both cases (from the upper back) might help.

Tubular bell movements come pre mounted to a large steel hammer frame, on a plywood seat board about 8" wide. The bell chimers always require access from the upper back. So, there will be a large removable panel there. Not so on the triple chimer.T

The triple chimer will likely have a solid
plywood backboard and the cast iron chime block will attach with 4 machine screws through the backboard and into the iron block. It may, or may not, have some kind of spacer between the backboard and iron block. This block is needed on many clocks to get the hammers in line with the rods. Willie X
Hey Willie thanks for the information!

Yes that is correct, there are 2 different clocks but actually only one movement. The second clock uses tubular bells, and requires a TU240 movement from Kieninger (1978). The current movement I have now does indeed have 12 hammers. Sorry, poor photography skills on that one! I believe it to be EITHER a 2100T movement from the Hentschel catalog, or an L50T from Mason and Sullivan Co. The trouble is finding out which it is. I know that it is indeed NOT a 1000T at this point, as the dimensions of this movement do not match those of a 1000T. If I learn the dimensions of the 2100 T movement, I should be able to figure out if that is what I have or not based on the dial and weights I have.

I will attach some better pictures of the upper back tomorrow when I return home
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
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Again, the kit factory numbers have no meaning and using them is confusing the conversation.

Are you planning on purchasing a tubular bell chime movement? If so, that will set you back over 2K for a new one.

I would suggest you finish the case that is made for the Kieninger (RSU?) movement you have now. Assuming you have the; dial/hands, weights, pendulum, chime assembly, etc. The dial has to be made for that movement, they are not generic. All this stuff is very sketchy, as to availability. It may take a lot of time and money to possibly round up what you need there.

Willie X
 

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