help solving problem with GB Westminster chiming

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by gintarasb64, Aug 8, 2017.

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  1. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

    Oct 1, 2012
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    I have Gustav Becker mantel clock with Westminster chiming. The problem is that when minute hand on every quarter releases chiming this normally starts but does not stops in time - chimes continuously until minute hand lift lifting lever and locks pin on the wheel. I can not find anywhere good pictures of the similar movement and just to compare with mine where is difference. I am not professional clock repairer but have some experience as this is my hobby. Please provide your opinions where the problem could be. Sorry for my poor English, thank you and best regards
    Gintaras 312825.jpg 312826.jpg 312827.jpg 312828.jpg 312829.jpg
     
  2. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Feb 22, 2010
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    The lock apparently takes place between the plates so it sounds like the timing of a lock pin is off. Has this always been an issue with the movement?

    In my limited experience, German engineering can be very unforgiving.

    Is there any chance you could post a video of the chime train action?

    It might show something that is not in view (or not obvious) in your still photos.
     
  3. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

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    The issue was already in place when I bought the clock. Agree with you that the lock takes place between the plates and visually is complicated enough to detect what is wrong and where lock pin should be. I spend a lot of time investigating but no positive results till now. Of course I learned a lot about chiming basics - there a lot of good information in this forum. Unfortunately all examples are used with movements with chiming locks located under front plate. I will try to make a video and post the link. Thank you for your help
    Gintaras
     
  4. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    I could be wrong but it sounds like it isn't stopping
    in warning to wait until the lever drops on the hour.
    Usually there is one wheel that is part of the chime
    train that has a pin on it to stop at warning. It holds
    until the minute releases the lifting lever.
    It then plays the appropriate 1/4.
    Can you clarify the sequence of events. You know, what
    is happening at what time.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  5. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    It appears that there are two levers that control the stop. One will be for the 3/4 hour auto-synch function, and the other for the regular chime sequence. If neither of those levers (shown in your 2nd picture) stop the train - in other words if it won't stop at the 3/4 hour position, then I suspect that you have a stop pin that broke off. If it does stop at the 3/4 hour it indicates a positioning problem, either with the lever or the wheel.

    If the clock worked well, and the problem just started, then a lever is the likely place to look. I see that they have a helper spring. Be sure that it is helping. Also one of the levers should be adjustable. They should both be even at the 3/4 hour position.
     
  6. ClipClock

    ClipClock Registered User
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    I did one of these about 18 months ago, but my memory is decidedly hazy on how it needs to be set up. But its all between the plates on this one.

    Below is the only picture I took before taking it apart, it's at least the right area and shows it in the stop position....*probably* at the 3/4 hour, thats usually where I move the hands to when I'm working out how the auto correct works on an unfamiliar movement

    I'm sorry I cant remember it, maybe if I see a video of yours it'll come back to me! 312926.jpg
     
  7. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

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  8. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    I would think the warning wheel is suppose to have a pin
    on both sides. the pin on the back side has busted off.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  9. ClipClock

    ClipClock Registered User
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    Sorry I just couldnt see the piece I needed to see in the videos, although they were good quality. At rest do you have pins lying in both of these detents? 313030.jpg
     
  10. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    I hate to ask you for another video, but could you post one from the same angle as ClipClock's photo? That's where the stop must occur so that must be where the pin is missing and/or the timing is off. Thanks.
     
  11. paclockman

    paclockman Registered User

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    I'm not sure this is your problem but it's something to check out.
    Earlier this year I had a Gustav Becker Westminster chime clock with a similar movement. The complaint......although the chimes always locked as they should and it always chimed when it should but it always played only 8 notes at the 3/4 hour and 20 notes at the hour. It was a real puzzler. I finally noticed that when it was chiming the 3/4 hour the slot in the locking plate came around a bit early causing the chimes to stop too soon, and at the hour the slot appeared too late allowing the extra 4 notes to play plus the 16 from the hour. The locking plate had somehow moved on it's arbor! After moving the locking plate and Loctiting it in place, it chimed as it should.
     
  12. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

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    With the help of all of you I think I found the problem - locking pin on the wheel is broken. This pin is clearly visible on the picture provided by ClipClock and missing in my movement (just very short pin from back side of the wheel is left). I will try somehow to fix it and I will inform you about my success. Thank's all of you for the help and advises - I would never detect the problem without it.
    Best regards

    Gintaras 313868.jpg
     
  13. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    That makes sense, and matches what your symptoms show. You'll have to remove that wheel to install a pin. You might as well do a complete service while you're at it. We're here to help if you need it.
     
  14. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

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    Hello again,
    I replaced locking pin but now have problem that locking pin is not synchronized with locking plate - locking pin stops chiming sequence only once per full locking plate circle. My question is how to regulate locking plate position? Do I need disassemble movement again and try to put it correctly or there is some simpler method?
    Best regards

    Gintaras
     
  15. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    Sometimes for timing issues of pin/lever it's ok to remove upper plate nuts/pins and spread the plates just enough so the pinned gear's pinion is disengaged, then turn the gear and re-insert and close plates. But, this does not suggest you should avoid clean and lube. Of course you should have power let down on mainsprings before doing it :)

    RJ
     
  16. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

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    I am slowly moving forward, I hope. Now the chiming is good at 1/4 and 2/4 positions. At 3/4 chiming does not stops after 12 notes but continue next 16 notes and strikes hours at the end. The problem is that locking wheel consists of two wheels - the left regulates locking at 1/4, 2/4 and 4/4 positions, the right one - 3/4 position (I think). I synchronized left wheel with locking pin, but found that that right locking wheel is not synchronized pin now. I will try to move right wheel, hope it will help.

    Regards
    Gintaras
     
  17. ClipClock

    ClipClock Registered User
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    I'm so sorry my recollection of this movement is so vague!

    My usual approch is to set them up in the locked position on the 3/4 chime so the chime correction is engaged. I seem to recall that there were two separate slots it could lock on, one for the 3/4 chime and the other for the rest. I think if you set it to lock on that other slot with all else set in the 3/4 chime position it *should* work fine on the rest.

    Apologies for the rubbish explanation, I dont know any of the names for stuff. Note to self, must learn them one day :rolleyes:
     
  18. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

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    Done! I moved right locking wheel and now everything is ok. The overall repair process was complicated enough, but now feel big pleasure looking at the clock. Thank's all for help - could not fix the clock without it.
    Best regards
    Gintaras
     

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