Help Needed (-:

yulo11

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Jan 29, 2011
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Hi,

I came across a lovely watch offered for sale.

the seller described the watch as an 18sz waltham, 17j with an 18Kt gold case , dated to 1883.

I've checked the serial no. which dates it to approx 1905-6.
the movement appears to be model 1879, 18 size but it doesn't seem to have th exact features of this model.

another issue - is the case a real 18k solid gold, as claimed, relying on the cases marks ?

I have attached some photos.

thanks for any Help,

Emmanuel 85654.jpg 85655.jpg 85656.jpg
 

Kent

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yulo11;535782 said:
...
the seller described the watch ... dated to 1883.

I've checked the serial no. which dates it to approx 1905-6.
the movement appears to be model 1879, 18 size but it doesn't seem to have th exact features of this model.
...
It sounds like the seller got confused between the production date and the model number. Its a model 1883.

Did you check the references listed in the Waltham Watches Encyclopedia article?

Are there any other case trade marks?

Good luck,
 

yulo11

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Jan 29, 2011
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Hi kent,

I didn't check the reference you mentioned, but have retrieved the data from the price guide to watches 2010, and there ,the 1883 movement doesn't have the exact features comparing to this watches movement.

it is dated to 1905 - correct ?

and regarding the case- this is the only mark indicating the gold content...can we relay on it ?

Emmanuel.
 

Lorne

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Jul 31, 2008
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I'd be careful. The gold content of the case may be 18 karat, or, it could be the size of the case. The model 1883 was an 18 size movement...
 

ben_hutcherson

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The movement is definitely a model 1883, and an attractively decorated one at that-even if it's not particularly high grade.

The 1903 date you've given sounds about right-model 1883 movements were made well on up into the 1920s.

I'm not a case guy, so I'll leave others to comment on the hallmarks. I'll just add, though, that I would want to be absolutely sure, as the difference in value between gold filled and solid 18K would be substantial on a watch this size.
 

Kent

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yulo11;535791 said:
... retrieved the data from the price guide to watches 2010, and there ,the 1883 movement doesn't have the exact features comparing to this watches movement.
...
Within Watch Models, the regulator, jeweling, finish and markings can vary greatly. The thing to look for is the shape of the plates and location of the jewels (or unjeweled holes) and screws.


...
it is dated to 1905 - correct ?
...

Give or take a couple of years.

... and regarding the case- this is the only mark indicating the gold content...can we relay on it ?
Emmanuel.
As Lorne posted, you can't trust such markings to be an indication of solid gold and its fineness - that's why I asked about other trade marks, to better assess the likelihood of it being solid gold.
 

MartyR

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Dec 16, 2008
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yulo11;535791 said:
and regarding the case- this is the only mark indicating the gold content...can we rely on it
You certainly can not rely on it, Emmanuel.

The mark doesn't say 18K, it says just 18. That is a well known type of deliberate deception practised by American casemakers, and I think I'm right in saying that every single example that has ever been discussed on this board turns out to be not solid gold.

If I were buying this watch, I would assume it is gold filled.
 

Tom Huber

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The mark in the back of your case looks like the mark of a GW Ladd case. His cases were 14K gold filled. What confuses people is the inner dust ring on the case. The ones I have seen say 14 karat on the ring, but all cases I have seen with this are gold filled.

If your case is truly a Ladd case, the bet is that it is gold filled.

Tom
 

Bratdaddy@mac.com

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Dec 1, 2008
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Looks like a nice Grade 825. Model 1883 has many grades and some are among the most beautiful ever made. These can be enjoyed in a dome or in your pocket. Warning: collecting Model 1883 AWCo can be highly addictive. You should search for posts by Steve M, one of the most knowledgeable '83 collectors around.

As for the case, I would completely rely upon the counsel of MartyR, accomplished in that area as well.
 

Timothy Davis

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Feb 22, 2011
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You can always check your complete price guide to watches book. I dont know about the 2010 but in the 2011 there are several pages in the front with all the hallmarks for solid gold and gold filled cases
 

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