Help needed with Meiko clock movement

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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I am really confused on what is wrong with this movement and really need some help from all you knowledgeable people.
The clock was brought to me and the owner said it ran great until the mainspring broke.
I took the old spring out in pieces as I had to cut it in order to get the movement safely apart.
I quickly found that the spring had not broken but instead it had come unhooked.
I ordered a new spring cleaned up the movement and put it back together.
The movement runs great and keeps fairly accurate time, but where I am confused is that whenever it runs down and stops it will not start again when I wind it back up, but as soon as I move the balance or the escape wheel it will start running and run great until it stops again.
It just will not start on its own.
I really have no clue how it can run so good but will not start on its own.
Any suggestions.
John Murrell 100_1946.JPG 100_1948.JPG 100_1949.JPG 100_1950.JPG 100_1951.JPG 100_1952.JPG 100_1953.JPG 100_1954.JPG 100_1955.JPG 100_1956.JPG
 

Dick Feldman

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A balance assembly will not self start unless it is a bit out of beat.
Probably the movement came to you with the problem.
D
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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When a spring is found to be unhooked, that is a sure sigh of a failed ratchet mechanism.

The failure can be completely due to poor winding habits, or a mechanical failure, or a combination of the two. Anyway, something gets damaged and needs to be repaired (or replaced) before you get the dreaded 'replay'. Ouch! o_O

Willie X
 

tracerjack

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As Dick has posted, the alignment must be slightly offset in order for the hairspring to self start after winding. Something to do with the roller and fork, but I can't remember which thread discussed this. Hopefully someone with more experience can give you a better explanation or point you to the right place in the archives.
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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Worn cones/cups can cause this also. If they are both adjustable you can try turning both cones 180 degrees in the same direction, one in and one out. This will relocate the pit (caused by long use) and will sometimes cure the problem, at least temporarily. If you can't go 180, try 90 degrees. The balance staff on these little clocks likes to be on the 'loose' side. Not so loose when all is in good condition.

Usually something is being moved out of place with the full pressure of the mainspring. Rough/worn pivots are also a likely culprit.

Willie X
 
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Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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When a spring is found to be unhooked, that is a sure sigh of a failed ratchet mechanism.

The failure can be completely due to poor winding habits, or a mechanical failure, or a combination of the two. Anyway, something gets damaged and needs to be repaired (or replaced) before you get the dreaded 'replay'. Ouch! o_O

Willie X
Actually the spring came off the center wheel pin as it was worn and damaged. I repaired it as best I could.
 

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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As Dick has posted, the alignment must be slightly offset in order for the hairspring to self start after winding. Something to do with the roller and fork, but I can't remember which thread discussed this. Hopefully someone with more experience can give you a better explanation or point you to the right place in the archives.
I am not quite sure just how to set it up slightly out of beat and not be too far out. When I set this up I did my best to get it in beat as best I could.
 

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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Worn cones/cups can cause this also. If they are both adjustable you can try turning both cones 180 degrees in the same direction, one in and one out. This will relocate the pit (caused by long use) and will sometimes cure the problem, at least temporarily. If you can't go 180, try 90 degrees. The balance staff on these little clocks likes to be on the 'loose' side. Not so loose when all is in good condition.

Usually something is being moved out of place with the full pressure of the mainspring. Rough/worn pivots are also a likely culprit.

Willie X
Maybe I didn't get the balance staff loose enough, but I actually didn't change it from where it was set when I got it. It is slightly loose but not much.
As far as turning the cups on the balance wheel I could try that and see what it does. I will have to see if I can turn them as I did not check to see if I could do that.
 

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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Maybe I didn't get the balance staff loose enough, but I actually didn't change it from where it was set when I got it. It is slightly loose but not much.
As far as turning the cups on the balance wheel I could try that and see what it does. I will have to see if I can turn them as I did not check to see if I could do that.
Worn cones/cups can cause this also. If they are both adjustable you can try turning both cones 180 degrees in the same direction, one in and one out. This will relocate the pit (caused by long use) and will sometimes cure the problem, at least temporarily. If you can't go 180, try 90 degrees. The balance staff on these little clocks likes to be on the 'loose' side. Not so loose when all is in good condition.

Usually something is being moved out of place with the full pressure of the mainspring. Rough/worn pivots are also a likely culprit.

Willie X
I was only able to turn the cups a little over 1/4 turn and I did loosen up the balance staff to see if that would help but neither of these made it start on its own.
The only pivot that seems to have a little play is the pivot for the fork and I am going to bust that and see if it helps.
John
 

shutterbug

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The hairspring itself seems to be pretty far out of round and bent up. That might be part of the issue.
 

Jmurrell

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The hairspring itself seems to be pretty far out of round and bent up. That might be part of the issue.
Thanks it's not really that bent up it's just the end of it beyond where the pin is holding it in. I was thinking about trying to straightening the end up if I can even do it.
John Murrell
 

shutterbug

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As mentioned, put the escapement slightly out of beat. If one direction doesn't help, try the other. Not too far - just a smidge.
 

RJSoftware

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Sort of a non issue in the clock world as it's a pin palettes type. To me, pic up clok and slightly rock back and forth to start. But, if unacceptable, adjust balance wheel postion by inserting thin blade in hairsping collet crack. Hold blade locked into hairspring collet crack stationary and roll balance wheel just a smidge. The idea is for the natural resting spot of the pin palette is against the impulse angle of ew tooth profile. But pin palettes are poor performers in this regard, they can hang in the drawl/lock spot because they are more prone to friction. You can offset beat till completely one sided, and that prevents drawl/lock resting as hairsprng resting spot will have enough momentum to unlock favored side and rest on impulse of other. But hearing the out of beat is too annoying for me. Like a magnet that sucks all focus to it. All day, like Chinese water torture. It's the irregular drips that drive them crazy. The mind can dismiss the consistent to background but the errant causes re-focus, draining energy of its designated victim.
 
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Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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Southeastern Ohio
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Sort of a non issue in the clock world as it's a pin palettes type. To me, pic up clok and slightly rock back and forth to start. But, if unacceptable, adjust balance wheel postion by inserting thin blade in hairsping collet crack. Hold blade locked into hairspring collet crack stationary and roll balance wheel just a smidge. The idea is for the natural resting spot of the pin palette is against the impulse angle of ew tooth profile. But pin palettes are poor performers in this regard, they can hang in the drawl/lock spot because they are more prone to friction. You can offset beat till completely one sided, and that prevents drawl/lock resting as hairsprng resting spot will have enough momentum to unlock favored side and rest on impulse of other. But hearing the out of beat is too annoying for me. Like a magnet that sucks all focus to it. All day, like Chinese water torture. It's the irregular drips that drive them crazy. The mind can dismiss the consistent to background but the errant causes re-focus, draining energy of its designated victim.
Thanks I am replacing a bushing at this time and when that is finished I will give a whirl.
John Murrell
 

Jmurrell

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I ended up putting 5 bushings in the movement, 2 in the escape wheel, 2 in the fork, and 1 in the mainspring arbor.

After I did that I straightened out the end of the hairspring as best I could.

Then I put the movement back together and put the escapement a little out of beat and that did the trick to get the clock to self start.

I want to say thanks to everyone for all the help in getting this one running as it should.

Putting it slightly out of beat is something I would never have thought of doing own my own.

Again thanks for all the help.

John Murrell
 
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