Help needed identifying hands for this clock

[Ada]

Hi, I have been a member of this forum for around 6 months now and have found some very useful information from other users on here. I've included some pictures of a torsion clock I bought last year that was in a sorry state with no history. The questions I have are...

1. would anybody know what sort of hands this clock would have had as it came without any

2. this clock looks very similar to a Harder Patent clock with subtle differences, most obvious being the dial. Other differences are the pendulum is larger/heavier at 400g, the mainspring barrel has a brass hook, the clock plates are thicker, no identifiable markings on the back plate and the movement pillars are slightly wider-spaced than on the Harder Patent clock. Would anybody know who made this clock?

Many thanks, Adrian.

 

[Shayne]

Hi Adrian nice clock the movement looks like Hauck to me . I think it would have had standard spade style hands. Have you measured the diameter of the pendulum and does it have a 2 slots just below weights to regulate the clock? I have just picked up a clock last week that has the same style pendulum and a nice dial with 24 hrs markings.

Best of luck
Shayne

 

[lesbradley]

Looks like a Huber to me, close up of the back plate would help to confirm

 

[Ada]

Hi Les, here is a picture of the back plate. I have looked in the horolovar book but cannot find this back plate as it has no hole to secure the click spring. The plate dimensions are 88mm high x 68mmwide x 2.3mm thick.

Hi Adrian nice clock the movement looks like Hauck to me . I think it would have had standard spade style hands. Have you measured the diameter of the pendulum and does it have a 2 slots just below weights to regulate the clock? I have just picked up a clock last week that has the same style pendulum and a nice dial with 24 hrs markings.

Best of luck
Shayne

The pendulum is machined from solid brass and has no slots for the weights and also has 2 large brass washers underneath.

Thanks, Adrian

 

[etmb61]

Early Huber, before the patent stamps?

It has a different suspension bracket than the limited number of Hubers I've seen, and no hole for the tail of the click spring or patent stamp, but the rest looks consistent to me.

Anyway, here is a picture of the type of hands I've seen on Hubers. Most of the clocks I've seen with these (including my own Huber) have a damaged or replaced hour hand. They're very frail. I don't know for sure but I think the hour hand has no center bushing and just fits directly on to the pipe.

Eric

 

[John Hubby]

Hi, I have been a member of this forum for around 6 months now and have found some very useful information from other users on here. I've included some pictures of a torsion clock I bought last year that was in a sorry state with no history. The questions I have are...

1. would anybody know what sort of hands this clock would have had as it came without any

2. this clock looks very similar to a Harder Patent clock with subtle differences, most obvious being the dial. Other differences are the pendulum is larger/heavier at 400g, the mainspring barrel has a brass hook, the clock plates are thicker, no identifiable markings on the back plate and the movement pillars are slightly wider-spaced than on the Harder Patent clock. Would anybody know who made this clock?

Many thanks, Adrian.

Adrian, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and particularly to the 400-Day Forum! Thanks for posting you inquiry and the photos of your early 400-Day clock.

This clock was made by Jahresuhren-Fabrik (JUF) sometime between 1888 and 1900, I would estimate closer to 1900 because of the Arabic number dial. Earlier clocks normally used Roman numbers and certainly pre-1895. My conclusion regarding the maker is based on two specifics of the clock:

• First is the upper suspension bracket for which the platform where the upper block is mounted is wider than the ones used by Huber, who were the only other maker of this clock design starting in late 1895 or early 1896.
• Second is the lack of a hole to accomodate a click spring positioning tab. This design with no positioning hole was used on all the Harder patent clocks made by JUF and was continued by them until they made their first movements marked Patent Angemeldet/Patent Applied about the end of 1900 or in 1901 (see comment below).

When Huber started production following their purchase of the Harder US and British patents from DeGruyter, they used the identical plate layout that had been used by JUF for Harder patent clocks. However, they introduced a hole for the click spring positioning tab as can be seen in Plate 1471 (that plate is incorrectly identified as made by JUF). All Huber solid pinion movements made from 1895/6 until they evidently stopped production of those higher quality movements around 1910 have that same plate layout.

In late 1900 or early 1901, JUF also started production of movements stamped with Patent Angemeldet/Patent Applied, and at that time they also redesigned their click layout. Their new design, which was used from that time until they went out of business in 1985, is easily identified as being the one illustrated in Plate 1051.

The hands that Eric has pictured would be correct for your clock. JUF generally used spade hands with Arabic numbers and Moonpoise hands with Roman numbers to about 1901, after that either spade hands or spade and pointer.

The pendulum is heavier than normal because of the added weight of the two brass washers, which were added because the correct suspension spring strength was not available. You can check the suspension strength needed with the washers in place but I've found the 0.0045 inch is usually needed whereas without them you can regulate the clock with a 0.0040 or perhaps slightly thinner spring.

 

[Ada]

I'd just like to thank all who have replied to my initial questions regarding this clock. I now know what hands to search for, thanks to Eric and I have also had answered who made this clock and when including other valuable information with thanks to John.

I shall be posting pictures of the clock when I have completed restoring it.

Many thanks, Adrian

 

[Ada]

Well, it's been nearly 2 years but finally found a pair of suitable hands ( thanks Eric for the photo! ) to finish the clock so here are the pictures. It is working fine and keeping good time using a 0.0045 suspension. I noticed the pendulum is larger at 9cm compared to the patent Harder clock I have at 8.5 cm so assuming this is the reason for a stiffer spring.
Adrian.

 

[etmb61]

Great job Adrian!

Eric

 

[AndyDWA]

It's a work of art. Nice job.