Help in identifying a wall clock, movement marked S Thomas, Plymouth Cont USA

coopuk

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First time posting here - I am hoping someone might be able to help me identify and date a clock I have found? I have been clearing my mum's house and found a wall clock on top of a wardrobe (!). it was covered in dust and partially disassembled. I have gathered the pieces together and to my surprise it looks like most of it is there. I have checked the movement and the strike mechanism is definitely working, whilst the hours/minutes mechanism doesn't seem to work.

Anyhow, the movement is marked S Thomas, Plymouth Cont, USA. No other labels, nothing on the dial (which is in a pretty bad state).

Is this actually a Seth Thomas movement, or a fake? Is so - can anyone identify the model and ideally a year of manufacture? All contributions gratefully received.

Photos attached.

1IMG_20210224_191538_543.jpg IMG_20210224_191215_592.jpg IMG_20210224_191227_557.jpg IMG_20210224_191320_196.jpg IMG_20210224_191342_549.jpg
 
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bruce linde

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i think that one would clean up well.... i see nothing to indicate it's not a seth thomas, although i might have expected 'seth thomas' in fine print at the bottom of the dial or maybe a logo. hard to tell from the photos but i don't see extra mounting holes. are you going to restore it? what do you mean 'the hours/minutes side doesn't work'... won't turn? won't wind?
 

Willie X

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This is definitely NOT a fake and please don't mess with the dial. That dial really isn't that bad. If you like "honest age" the dial can be stabilized and kept as is. Or it can be restored to look ... well ... restored, if that's your thing. Looks like you have the dial trim ring but not the bezel?
Anyway, you have a potentially very nice clock there. It's a diamond in the rough. Just needs a large dose of TLC and/or the money to buy said amount of TLC. :)
Others will give you some more specific info. Willie X
 
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Steven Thornberry

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Looks like the No. 44 movement, an 8-day movement that the Seth Thomas Clock Co. used for many years. The case, on the other hand, appears to be English mad. The clock would then be called an Anglo-American, to denote an American movement in an English-made case. We have seen many of these on the forums. By and large, the majority of movements in these Anglo-American clocks are those of the New Haven Clock Co. and the E.N. Welch Mfr. Co. However, other companies' movements are also found, including Seth Thomas.

Since the movement is marked Plymouth, that would indicate it was made no later than 1865. In that year, Plymouth Hollow, part of the town of Plymouth, CT, was informally renamed Thomaston in honor of Seth Thomas. The formal designation came about 10 years later, with the incorporation of Thomaston as a town in its own right. In any event, once the informal renaming took place, the Seth Thomas Clock Co. changed the place name accordingly on their movements and labels. So, it might not be out of the question to place your clock in that period, depending on when the movements marked Plymouth were used up. Say ca. 1870 for simplicity's sake. Of course, it could pre-date 1865 - difficult to say sometimes with Anglo-Americans, at least for me.
 
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coopuk

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Firstly, thanks for all the info - it is really appreciated. Just to reply to a couple of questions:

"are you going to restore it? "
I don't know! I've done basic servicing on wrist watches, and that's about - I really wouldn't know where to start with this clock, or even if it is has any value. Your opinions would be appreciated.

"what do you mean 'the hours/minutes side doesn't work'... won't turn? won't wind?"
Sorry for not being clear. The hours/minutes side winds, and if I set the pendulum swinging it will engage with a steady ticking for about 30 seconds - then the rocker at the top of the pendulum seems to lose engagement with the gear wheel above it, causing that wheel to 'skip' for a second or so before trying to engage again. Sorry for providing a non-technical description.

" It looks like the stop works (AKA Geneva Stops) are missing. Maybe you have the missing pieces"
I'm a complete novice, and wouldn't recognise a stop works if I saw one ;)

I've posted a few pics, just to confirm that there is nothing on the dial, and also to show the back of the movement. Hope that helps.

Once again, thanks for all the info and advice so far!

IMG_20210224_195117_160.jpg IMG_20210224_195124_410.jpg IMG_20210224_195213_818.jpg IMG_20210224_195232_486.jpg
 

bruce linde

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ah... you do not want the escape wheel spinning like that as it could cause damage.

so it needs to be fully dissembled (AFTER the mainsprings have been let down... very important!!!!!!!!!!), de-rusted, cleaned, issues dealt with, cleaned again, reassembled, oiled, adjusted, etc.

at the proper time in that process you would loosen the screw (slightly) in this photo, and move that arm up (ever-so-slightly) to allow the verge to mesh with the escape wheel (EW) teeth so they couldn't spin freely... but there is much to do before you get to that point.

IMG_20210224_191215_592.jpg
 

jmclaugh

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Nice wall clock, typically these cases had ears at the side at the base of the dial surround on the trunk, is there any evidence this one did? If it is an Anglo-American one maker of cases for such clocks was Holloway & Co of London whose mark H & Co. under a crown is often found on the back of the case.

As to value and restoring it deserves to be restored but it may very well not stack up financially if you have to pay for that.
 

coopuk

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Nice wall clock, typically these cases had ears at the side at the base of the dial surround on the trunk, is there any evidence this one did? If it is an Anglo-American one maker of cases for such clocks was Holloway & Co of London whose mark H & Co. under a crown is often found on the back of the case.

As to value and restoring it deserves to be restored but it may very well not stack up financially if you have to pay for that.
Hi - no ears on the base, and no marking on the back of the case either - the back of the case is actually very rough wood. As you say, I suspect the cost of restoring it would be more than the actual value of the clock. I suspect it will be passed on for spares or repairs :(

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice!
 

Jessk09

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Looks like a Seth Thomas No. 44 movement. To add value to the clock, i would suggest keeping the original dial. The movt. stamp should say Seth or S. Thomas Plymouth, Conn.
 
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