Help in identifing a small "German Regulator"

[Tatersron]

I purchased a supposedly German Regulator clock the other day. In trying to identify the manufacturer by the trademark; a mercury symbol, I came up with the Ollendorf Watch Co., Inc. Located in New York NY.

The data I came up with on this company indicates that they did in fact make clocks as well as watches. The data is rather sparse but it does list mercury as a trade mark.

I would like to find some photos of the clocks they made if possible to identify my clock. There are some numbers on the back as well as the trademark.

Thanks,
Tatersron

 

[zepernick]

Re: Help in identifing a small

Tatersron -- It's always helpful if we can see a picture of the mark as there were several companies that used a Mercury variant. If it's a German clock, there's one from Kienzle (aka Schlenker & Kienzle) that was registered in 1892. How does it compare? Regards, Zep

 

[Tatersron]

Re: Help in identifing a small

Tatersron -- It's always helpful if we can see a picture of the mark as there were several companies that used a Mercury variant. If it's a German clock, there's one from Kienzle (aka Schlenker & Kienzle) that was registered in 1892. How does it compare? Regards, Zep

Close but not the same, Mine does not have as much of the garment showing and the Helment is not as prominent. I will Re-post with a photo in a few days. Thanks for answering.

Tatersron

 

[Reulandjr]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

I have a similiar clock with what sounds like a symbol closer to yours...

Any ideas on this one?

 

[zepernick]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

I have a similiar clock with what sounds like a symbol closer to yours...

Any ideas on this one?

Greetings Reuland --

I'd assume it's also a Kienzle. There were of course small differences between a trademark when shown in a printed drawing submitted for registration, and when realized as stamped into brass. Below are some depictions from a Schlenker & Kienzle catalogue. The figure shown also differs from the registration one I'd posted earlier. Only yesterday .. or so it seems

Regards
Zepernick

 

[Reulandjr]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

That makes sense, thanks for the reply Zep!

 

[Uhren Bill]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

This may be useful, here is a photo of a clock I'm cleaning today. The same Mercury trademark with the letters DEP: enclosed in a rectangle beneath. The movement seems like the Schlenker and Kienzle movements I've seen only slightly smaller. Guessing the DEP: is something to do with the trademark?
Bill

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

This may be useful, here is a photo of a clock I'm cleaning today. The same Mercury trademark with the letters DEP: enclosed in a rectangle beneath. The movement seems like the Schlenker and Kienzle movements I've seen only slightly smaller. Guessing the DEP: is something to do with the trademark?
Bill

DEP = Deutsches Patent (German Patent).

 

[zepernick]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

The abbreviation for a general German patent was DRP. DEP might refer to something having been registered, as e.g. marks were -- i.e. deponi(e)rt -- in the Austro-Hungarian system.

 

[Kevin W.]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

The wings in the trade mark seem to be prevalent often.

 

[Richard T.]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

Time Flies (flees) As Zep posted, this thread started only a few days ago.

Best,

Richard T.

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

The abbreviation for a general German patent was DRP. DEP might refer to something having been registered, as e.g. marks were -- i.e. deponi(e)rt -- in the Austro-Hungarian system.

So, DEP is deponiert? And I've been wrong all this time.:bang:

 

[zepernick]

Steven --

The situation in the 19th century with trademark protection and registration laws in the German-speaking "states" was so complex at any one time, let alone over time, that it would be hard to be completely right or wrong about anything .

For what in 1871 became "Germany" alone, for example, there was no unified single registration system for the entire Reich until the law of 1894. As a result, references that surveyed the situation with "trademark" legislation would typically have a long list of which states (provinces, kingdoms, etc.) had laws and what they were. The first clip below shows just part of one such reference from 1874.

I'm assuming that the DEP reference on the Schlenker-Kienzle movement was related to the Austro-Hungarian trademark registration laws because Kienzle had a factory in Komotau, had also registered its trademarks in A/H, and "deponirt" typically showed up with A/H registered trademarks. The 1895 edition of a summary of A/H laws, published in Vienna, is also attached. But the deponi(e)rt (the spelling changed) could have been elsewhere.

Regards
Zepernick

 

[soaringjoy]

Re: Help in identifing a small "German Regular"

So, DEP is deponiert? And I've been wrong all this time.:bang:

I'm real mean, I know...
but I just have to keytype this in.

Uhm, well, actually, DEP(P) is a choice term for "dumb nut" or
similar, mostly in southern Germany.

Oops, so sorry! You got any more bang walls?
Isn't life great sometimes?

Jurgen

BTW:

Zep, you do know, that many Germans can't read the Sütterlin
letters anymore, don't you?

 

[Albra]

Steven --

The situation in the 19th century with trademark protection and registration laws in the German-speaking "states" was so complex at any one time, let alone over time, that it would be hard to be completely right or wrong about anything .

For what in 1871 became "Germany" alone, for example, there was no unified single registration system for the entire Reich until the law of 1894. As a result, references that surveyed the situation with "trademark" legislation would typically have a long list of which states (provinces, kingdoms, etc.) had laws and what they were. The first clip below shows just part of one such reference from 1874.

I'm assuming that the DEP reference on the Schlenker-Kienzle movement was related to the Austro-Hungarian trademark registration laws because Kienzle had a factory in Komotau, had also registered its trademarks in A/H, and "deponirt" typically showed up with A/H registered trademarks. The 1895 edition of a summary of A/H laws, published in Vienna, is also attached. But the deponi(e)rt (the spelling changed) could have been elsewhere.

Regards
Zepernick

Greetings all,

unfortunately Zep is no longer with us, but we will honor his memory. And we will also conduct our researches on clocks with the same meticulousness and care, just like Zep has shown us.

Therefore, I add in this thread the finding that Kienzle clocks that have the abbreviation "Dep" on the movement, have been produced in Switzerland. ("Dep" for "Deposée")

But sorry about the assembly plant of Kienzle in Switzerland very little information is available so far: We do not know when it was founded, even when it was closed, or where it was.

But also we want to find it out, right Zep?

Zep, rest in peace!

albra

 

[strelook]

and I have a similiar clock. I want to know that there are these letters. "JGMS", and what is "43"?
Thanks, Yuryy View attachment 238504

 

[strelook]

 

[Steven Thornberry]

I suspect that what you have is not JGMS but DGMS (with the vertical stroke of the D faded), which is an abbreviation for Deutscher Gebrauchsmusterschutz. This was a variant of the more common DRGM, which is an abbreviation for Deutsches Reichs-Gebrauchsmuster. Both referred to what are called "utility model" patents. They are patents for technical improvements rather than patents for designs, for example.

 

[strelook]

You are absolutely right! D - not impressed fully.
Thanks

 

[strelook]

10 years - it wasn't long))

 

[JTD]

10 years - it wasn't long)) View attachment 747215 View attachment 747216 View attachment 747217 View attachment 747218


View attachment 747213 View attachment 747214

Did you have a question?

JTD

 

[strelook]

Thanks for the answer.
If you can say -
What I must to buy to complete the look of the watch.

 

[JTD]

Thanks for the answer.
If you can say -
What I must to buy to complete the look of the watch.

There may be a piece missing from the top of the clock (is there a slot or hole on the top) , but personally I would leave it as it is.

JTD

 

[strelook]

Really!
Maybe please, tell me the year...
year of clock production ))
If possible...about that

 

[JTD]

Really!
Maybe please, tell me the year...
year of clock production ))
If possible...about that
View attachment 747277 View attachment 747278

Maybe 1890-1910. There was something on the top, but impossible to know what design. You can find replacement top pieces on line.

The finial on the bottom would have been the same as the two on either side.

JTD

 

[strelook]

JTD

Thanks a lot for your time!
In the near future I will buy a mantel clock with a Westminster chime. Can I share the joy of shopping on this site?

 

[Tatyana]

Really!
Maybe please, tell me the year...
year of clock production ))
If possible...about that
View attachment 747277 View attachment 747278

1894 year

 

[strelook]

1894 year

Tatyana, if it's not a mystery, tell me
please, how you knew it!
))

 

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, if it's not a mystery, tell me
please, how you knew it! ))

I have been collecting a database on Kienzle for 6 years.
Patents have been used for dating, of which this company has a lot.
For example, the DRGM patent of the end of 1895 began to be used with serial numbers 370_XXX.
The average annual production of "time & strike" movements at the main clock factory in Schwenningen during this period was 70-75 thousand per year.
Therefore, I date your movement to 1894.

Regards
Tatyana

 

[strelook]

I date your movement to 1894.

Tatyana, thank you!!!
Thanks to everyone who replied and read, you helped me understand all about my clock!)

Best regards, Yuryy.