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Help Identifying this Gingerbread Clock

hsjnlssmith

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Jan 13, 2012
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I am curious about a clock that I am interested in restoring. However, I am not able to find any info out from the owner about the movement since he is unwilling to dismantle the clock to look at the movement and see if there are any manufacturers stamped in the brass. Attached are some photos of the clock. A fair amount fo the framing is missing, but if I knew what it was supposed to look like, I would like to re-build the missing pieces. I looked through my Waterbury and Gilbert catalogues, but could not find anything that matched. Would anyone be willing/able to look through other American clock manufacturer books to possibly find a match?

Thanks,

Henry

$(KGrHqIOKpMFG7DQipwcBR0i(l8J!g~~60_12.jpg $(KGrHqJHJEEFGviDgnBkBR0i(mENEw~~60_12.jpg
 

gilbert

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Aug 25, 2009
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With the color on stencil and typr of pendulum I would be thinking New Haven, beyond that no idea
 

owen.or

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I tend to agree with gilbert that this is a New Haven product. The base is very similar to one used on a model called "Pruth" c.1886 although the rest of the clock does not appear similar. It is not unusual for the same base to be used on more than one model. David, Owen.or
 

hsjnlssmith

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Jan 13, 2012
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Steven,

I think that the parts do probably go together at least regarding the ornamental side piece and the long skinny piece of wood that appears to cover the part of the clock that is un-finished. I am including some additinoal photos to see if it gives anyone an "A-Ha" moment. Maybe the detail of the alarm dial might trigger something. I have a Gilbert clock with an alarm and that dial has spokes on it unlike this one.

$T2eC16JHJHEFFlkyGkE(BR0i(nL4n!~~60_12.jpg $T2eC16RHJHUFFiYNdth9BR0i(rSi!w~~60_12.jpg $T2eC16VHJHwFG1o5Cs77BR0i(njJKw~~60_12.jpg $T2eC16ZHJHUFFfWp(U41BR0i(o)MUg~~60_12.jpg

Again, thanks for your help.

HSS
 

Attachments

Steven Thornberry

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I can now see the base better, and it is different than the base on the Pruth, though it has similarities. The glass is a definite New Haven; Tran's New Haven book shows it, for example, on the Dora (1883 catalogue), but your clock is not the Dora. The decorative piece above the pendulum ball is also indicative of New Haven. Whether the alarm dial is original, I can't say for sure and can't see it too clearly. It might be like the one I have on my New Haven Derby, which, albeit, is silver (or nickel) in color. It may be no matter, however, since a missing alarm dial might have been replaced with whatever was handy.

I am having trouble matching the parts and case together with anything in Tran, but it may, for all I know, be a model not in Tran - or, I may just be no good at this particular visual puzzle. I haven't looked outside of Tran. You might look through antiqueclockspriceguide.com. Although you cannot see the full verbal descriptions without having a subscription, you can view the pictures and enlarge them.
 

hsjnlssmith

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Jan 13, 2012
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Steven,

I went to www.antiqueclockspriceguide.com and actually found what seems to be close to the correct New Haven clock. Here are some pictures.

8028.jpg 8028D.jpg

The base does not match and the bottom ornamental side pieces do not tie in to the case in the same way and are not quite the same in design. But the upper side seems to be the same down to the design in the wood at the top. I get the impression that there may have been two similar designs by New Haven. I do not have a membership to the antiqueclockspriceguide.com website and thus cannot find the name of the model if they have it listed. If you are a member, would it be possible to look at this clock and see what information might exist? The website is http://www.antiqueclockspriceguide.com/clockdetails.php?clockid=33698.

Looks like it might take some doing to recreate the top pieces that are completely missing. But the clock does look intriguing.

Thanks for your help.

Henry
 

Steven Thornberry

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Intriguing, yes, but the description fudges, saying "probably by New Haven." The description states that the rosettes and the door glass are replacements (well, the writer said "I believe" about the rosettes). The pendulum seems a New Haven, and the dial could well be. Certain details of the case do match yours. There is a partial label, which I could not make out, but it suggests New Haven, but I can't be sure. I have to wonder why the writer fudged by saying probably "by New Haven." Did he or she have a chance to check the movement? I could not find this in Tran, but that does not mean it is not a New Haven product. Any number of clocks did not make it into Tran for one reason or another.

I found one other in Tran that is a possibility, the No. 508, 1890 catalogue. That, however, has a rectangular door, rather than a round-top door. I'll try to get a picture of it from Tran posted later today.
 

hsjnlssmith

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Jan 13, 2012
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Steven,

Again, thanks for checking. The rosettes seem out of place and I would not be surprised if these were add ons. I am fairly confident based upon all the responses above that this is a New Haven. Maybe the base is even correct and the one on antiqueclockpriceguide is a modification. Just don't know if I could do it justice in trying to remake all of the missing top pieces, ignoring the rosettes. Plus the guy is asking what I think is a lot of $ for something that needs a bunch of work.

I would love to see the image you spoke of from Tran's book. no. 508.

Cheers, HSS
 

Steven Thornberry

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Thanks for the reminder, Henry. Here is a picture of the No. 508 from Tran.
 

hsjnlssmith

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Jan 13, 2012
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Thanks again Steven. It is almost as if the version I am interested in is a mutant from two different designs. I found a photo of an actual 508 on the internet.

item_pic.jpg item_pic 3.jpg

I guess it is now up to me to decide if i want to take this on. The top pieces on the 508 seem to be makable. Just not sure which upper design is right.

Thanks again.
 

hsjnlssmith

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Jan 13, 2012
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Houston, Texas
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I ended up buying the clock for cheap and will try and restore it. I took the movement out and could not find any markings on it to tie it to a clock manufacturer. Here are some photos:
WP_20141223_12_50_07_Pro.jpg WP_20141223_12_50_23_Pro.jpg WP_20141223_12_50_33_Pro.jpg

Was it common to have springs with different widths? Also, the mounting brackets at the bottom of the clock are part of the frame and not separate pieces. There are no top mounting brackets but instead a piece of wood was used:
WP_20150104_15_15_34_Pro.jpg WP_20150104_15_16_10_Pro.jpg WP_20150104_15_16_19_Pro.jpg

If anyone has any ideas about this movement, if it typical of New Haven or not, your thoughts are welcomed.

Thanks,

Henry
 

DC George

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May 30, 2014
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The movement is definitely a product of New Haven and so is the dial. It sure is rough and missing a lot of parts, I have no way of identifying the model due to there not being enough case present.

Good luck with the restoration.
 

hsjnlssmith

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Jan 13, 2012
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Thanks for your reply. Can anyone shed light on the upper mounting brackets not existing and the use of the wood instead? Was this normal or might the original brackets have been removed?
 

Missy

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May 27, 2004
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Your movement is correct. I just saw a lot made and mounted that way since it is a back mounted mvt. Just makes it easier since their isn't any room to get to the screws.

I have gone back and forth comparing the clock you found and the #508. I am leaning toward the #508. That clock could easily have either a round door or a rectangular one. It could have been offered either way. Also, these clock companies were notorious for changing a part or two, mix and match, so to speak and giving it a different model number. They were trying to satisfy the customer and keep up with the changing styles.

I am a little curious about the base that you have. Is it the same type of wood with the same color and patina as the rest of the pieces you have? It looks lighter in color in the pictures.
Is that other piece a matching side piece for the base or is it a different color as it looks darker.

I think the #508 would be easier to replicate. If you work with wood, I think you can do it. Please keep us posted as to your progress. We love follow-ups. I think you need to go back to that man and ask him for the rest of the parts. Nutjob

Sorry for all the questions, but it helps me in my research. I have gone through everything I could think of, but will keep my eyes open.

Playing Nancy Drew,

Missy
 

hsjnlssmith

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Jan 13, 2012
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Thanks Missy Drew,

The other piece (side piece) of the base is an exact match and is now fitted to the rest of the base. I agree with you that the #508 is definitely easier to restore and I will probably go that route. I did contact the seller and he confirmed that that was all he had, so good luck to me.

Appreciate your input and I will post as I make headway on the restoration.

Cheers,

Henry
 
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