1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. For the new NAWCC home page
    Click this image at the upper left corner of this page.
  1. KipW

    KipW Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 24, 2015
    66
    72
    18
    Country Flag:
    I'm more familiar with American pocket watches, but had to have this one when I saw it. (Lust at first sight?) It has become a massively intriguing riddle in itself for me.

    French or Swiss, recased (improperly), key wind, dual time, dual train, pare-chute, possibly dead beat seconds, and much more I hope to learn when it arrives. Until then, I've been studying the only photos I have and with my meager knowledge and experience, I simply can't tell for sure what type escapement it has. The picture isn't great, but I'm hoping someone can help me figure out:

    1 - specifics of the escapement?

    2 - why these watches are refered to as "Captain's" watches? (is there a history, or particular usage, or a niche market, these were designed to cater to?)

    THANKS in advance for any insights and information!

    s-l1600 (1)-.jpg s-l1600 (4)--.jpg s-l1600 (5)-.jpg
     
    viclip likes this.
  2. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
    1,949
    913
    113
    Sosnowiec, Poland
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Angle lever escapement, simply...
     
  3. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

    Dec 2, 2016
    4,035
    347
    83
    watchmaker
    Western NSW or just this side of the black stump.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    or as put in the link I posted: side lever escapement.
     
  4. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    11,112
    1,499
    113
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi KipW,

    The escapement is a straightforward club-tooth lever, ('Swiss'), and of the earlier type having the lever tangential to the escape, as has already been said. There's a compensation curb, a bimetallic alternative to a fully compensated cut bimetallic balance, but whether your balance is also compensated is impossible to tell with it in motion in the picture. The parachute is a shock-proof device for the balance staff pivots, with its sprung endstones, invented by Breguet, but there's no suggestion that he was involved in the making of this watch.

    The independent dead seconds mechanism involves a complex escape wheel configuration in the seconds train to allow it to beat seconds. The separate train works just the sweep seconds, and the 'captain's watch' expression refers to two different time zones being displayed on the dial, a useful feature for a long distance traveller such as a ship's captain. These would have been quite expensive when new, due to the complications.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
    zacandy, Ethan Lipsig, eri231 and 2 others like this.
  5. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

    Dec 2, 2016
    4,035
    347
    83
    watchmaker
    Western NSW or just this side of the black stump.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Graham already knows that I love seeing his posts.
    But I'll click the like button anyway because it is there
     
    pmwas likes this.
  6. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 14, 2001
    5,665
    427
    83
    Aerospace Engineer
    New Hampshire
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    What makes this escapement tricky to identify is the Breguet curb and parachute (which KipW ID'd) on the balance cock. That quadrant device is an early temperature compensator, attributed to Breguet. The "loop" on the side is a spring mount for the cap jewel making the watch somewhat shock resistant.

    In addition to independent seconds and two time zones the watch has shock resistance.

    I estimate the date of the watch to mid 1840's. Very nice item!
     
  7. KipW

    KipW Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 24, 2015
    66
    72
    18
    Country Flag:
    Thanks to everyone for their valuable input and education! I'm not good at visualization, so did not recognize that the escapement was a tangential lever type. I'm so used to the Swiss/Anchor style or the English style - this was new to me! (Obviously I'm NOT a watchmaker!)
    I'd like more information on the unusual versions of the lever escapement. Everything online seems to be all about the math. Whereas, I just need simple visuals...drawings and/or slow motion video of the unusual versions. In other words, I don't need to know technical details as much as how to spot the various types. Any ideas on how to educate myself in this way? Appreciate this!
     
  8. KipW

    KipW Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 24, 2015
    66
    72
    18
    Country Flag:
    One more thing...from the pictures, it appears there are no jewels in the pallets on this watch? Really?
     
  9. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    11,112
    1,499
    113
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi KipW,

    Yes, that's possible, a good many Swiss watches have plain steel pallets, or the jewels may have been fitted in horizontal slots like an English lever escapement, which are harder to see.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  10. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 22, 2015
    2,261
    1,004
    113
    Retired Systems Architect
    France
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  11. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    11,112
    1,499
    113
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #12 gmorse, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
    Hi John,

    Unfortunately, Volker's website uses Adobe Flash for its animations, which neither Firefox nor Chrome support any longer, although MS Edge still does. It's a pity, because, as you say, they are some of the best and most accurate animations available, (if you don't worry about the slightly bizarre English translation from the German).


    [EDIT] A correction, you can persuade Chrome to run Flash for now, see here. I don't think any browsers will support it after the end of 2020.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  12. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 22, 2015
    2,261
    1,004
    113
    Retired Systems Architect
    France
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Graham - at the moment I use flash on Firefox. I used it to run the animations before I posted the links. Some sites have pop-up requesting permission - but the animations ran without. It must depend on Firefox settings, but I have not investigated.

    John
     
  13. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    11,112
    1,499
    113
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi John,

    Are you running Firefox Extended Support Release? I'm running version 74.0 on the Release Channel and it won't support Flash, for which support is said to be ended in December this year.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  14. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 22, 2015
    2,261
    1,004
    113
    Retired Systems Architect
    France
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Graham - I'm using the 64 bit version of v.74.

    I use the Shockwave Flash plugin with blocking set - last updated 12/03/2020

    upload_2020-3-19_23-26-38.png

    John

    Edit - you can of course capture the animations and store them on your hard drive, using any of a number of Flash download extensions.
     
  15. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 9, 2013
    2,283
    780
    113
    Male
    retired
    Germany
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #16 Allan C. Purcell, Mar 20, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
    Hi KipW. I think it would help if you looked at " Early Single Table Roller Escapements post 434 in FORUMS. There you will find directions to other forms of the Lever escapement plus others.

    Allan.
     
  16. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    11,112
    1,499
    113
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi John,

    Thanks for the hint, I've now solved this.

    Regards,

    Graham
     

Share This Page