Help Identifying Regulator(is it a Biedermeier?) Clock Date and Manufacturer?

expeditionhiker

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Hi, I'm trying to help give a friend more information on his inherited clock. It looks amazing, but there are no markings and everything looks oddly new except for the back wood panel is obviously 100+ old, flathead screws and pins everywhere. The pendulum rod is metal, is this Invar? The movement is mounted by hanging on the top and then two rods(with larger washers) on bottom of movement slide into holes on the back panel. Sorry about my terrible pictures, the last picture is the top of the pendulum rod/hanger. What do you guys think this clock is? The plates look brand new, but so do most things on this clock. There are no markings on the movement, but only the name on the face, is Ludwig Sainz the clock maker? who is he? year? quality clock? thankyou

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Chris Radano

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It looks like a really nice and desirable Regulator. Obviously restored but looks like a late Biedermeier (I don't have info on the signature name).
I would think the dial is strengthened but being a one piece that's the most desirable.
Is the glass wavy? If not it could be replaced. 6 light case is desirable. There are reproduction cases but this one could be mid 19th c. It has some ornamental features but still utilizes mostly long, straight lines so I would call it late Biedermeier style. Look at other case aspects such as the hinges and case joints to get a better idea of age. But I think the movement is period and is very nicely made.
 
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Tatyana

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Hi, I'm trying to help give a friend more information on his inherited clock. It looks amazing, but there are no markings and everything looks oddly new except for the back wood panel is obviously 100+ old, flathead screws and pins everywhere. The pendulum rod is metal, is this Invar? The movement is mounted by hanging on the top and then two rods(with larger washers) on bottom of movement slide into holes on the back panel. Sorry about my terrible pictures, the last picture is the top of the pendulum rod/hanger. What do you guys think this clock is? The plates look brand new, but so do most things on this clock. There are no markings on the movement, but only the name on the face, is Ludwig Sainz the clock maker? who is he? year? quality clock? thankyou

View attachment 663280 View attachment 663281 View attachment 663282 View attachment 663284 View attachment 663286
View attachment 663285
The name Ludwig Saintz is mentioned here.

Ludwig SantZ Prague.jpg


P.S. Information from the Polish Forum Zegary z monarchii austro-węgierskiej
 

JTD

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Tatyana, that does not say Sainz, it says Hainz, which leads me on to what I had been about to write:

I was just going to write and ask whether the dial shows any signs of repainting, because the name Sainz is not usual in Austro-Hungary. However, Ludwig Hainz is listed in Abeler (and elsewhere) as working in Prague at the right time.

It does seem an amazing coincidence if there were really two people of almost identical name, working in Prague at the same time.

Does it seem possible that the dial has been repainted, or perhaps just re-touched and the artist got the first letter wrong?

JTD
 
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expeditionhiker

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The glass is not wavy....i also thought the name Sainz was odd, it is a Spanish name. Because of the use of this name, I was wondering if this was a reproduction. The wood is old. I have no idea if the face has been repainted. If the clock was restored, it was done with perfection, except maybe for the name and non wavy glass.
 

JTD

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I have an L.Hainz 2 wt. floor clock early 1900 in an art deco? case very high quality. My research says Hainz family maintained the monumental clock(3 stories tall) for 5 generations
Could we see a picture of your clock? Early 1900 would be rather late for the Ludwig Hainz in Prague. Also a 1900 case could not be art deco - but could be art nouveau.

Perhaps the Hainz movement could have been put into a newer case?

JTD
 

JTD

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What are signs or indications of a reproduction?
I see nothing to indicate that this clock is a reproduction. However, the movement has been very thoroughly cleaned and polished (no harm in that) and I think the case may have been restored too.

As for the dial, I believe that it has been repainted, either wholly or partially. The lettering of Ludwig Sainz is not consistent, it gets gradually taller as each word progresses. Also the words 'in Prague' are not very well 'justified' (spaced) under the name.

It would not have been usual to write the name of the city in English at the time the clock was made. It would have been usual to write it in German, 'in Prag'. A few Czech makers used Czech, in which case it would have been 'v Praze'.

I wonder if the original wording was in the so-called 'Gothic' script (which was used a lot on clocks at this time). Perhaps who ever repainted the wording felt that they could not manage to copy the script, misread 'Hainz' as 'Sainz' (which would have been a mistake easily made by someone not too familiar with that script) and decided to do the wording in Latin script. And also, perhaps, they just wrote Prague because the original wording was rubbed and they may have thought the 'ue' was missing.

I don't know - this is just my thoughts. But I don't think the clock itself is a reproduction.

Others may know more.

JTD
 
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bruce linde

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I was at my clock mentors house yesterday… He has a very similar regulator in a much smaller and starker/simpler case. The movement has the same mounting set up, and there is also a metal pendulum rod. The bezel on his was very finally cast and he told me that they can’t make those anymore because the sand they used no longer exists. It would be nice to see close-ups of the bezel on this one. and the dial looks brand new, which makes me think repaint. The increase in size of the lettering is a giveaway. his has a second small weight you pull to wind it. you can’t see the metal pendulum rod (the clock on the left) in this photo, but it’s there.

94BC55C4-7606-4422-B125-408F1CA61C65.jpeg
 

new2clocks

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FWIW, mikrolisk shows the following trademarks, which he attributes to Ludwik Hainz of Prague, founded in 1836 until approxinately 1970.

For the first trademark he cites Wikipedia.

1626538211957.png


1626538280925.png


If this is the same firm as the OP's Ludwig Hainz, (we are assuming the OP's clock should read Hainz and not Sainz), then it is possible that the OP's clock is newer than the 1800s.

Regards.
 

JTD

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it is possible that the OP's clock is newer than the 1800s.
Well I suppose it could be but it would need L. Hainz to have made a replica of a much earlier clock.

I have found pictures of several Hainz clocks which are all with the name on the dial in 'Gothic' script. One regulator I found is very clear and it is easy to see how someone might have thought that the 'Gothic' Hainz was Sainz.

Hainz, whose business was led by 5 generations of men named Ludwig Hainz, seems to have gone out of business around 1970.

For myself I still feel the OP's clock is original, if perhaps a little overcleaned, and that the dial is repainted.

But, as always, I may be wrong.

JTD
 

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