Help Identifying Cuckoo Clocks

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Janzen, Sep 19, 2019.

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  1. Janzen

    Janzen New Member

    Sep 19, 2019
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    Hi! I inherited several cuckoo clocks and would like to identify the maker and date them. I’m not sure how to tell since there is no information on/in the clock. I would greatly appreciate any help that is offered. I have a few more to add once I have a chance to take photos.
    FC7D5798-68A3-42D3-BE8C-11E163BC4B07.jpeg
    B4EE18D9-C4C8-4D7B-8B69-3AA7C4AA5721.jpeg
    8C22FC93-7069-48A6-B4F6-BF976CA8B0E0.jpeg
    5BD8D3CD-3D86-4106-A75D-BA9E9FB0465F.jpeg
    3C49E11B-889A-4A9B-B247-54E72EA2AEBC.jpeg C7E9DE38-79CB-4A19-B5FE-C8FF2F389516.jpeg 03F4B532-9F98-42CD-8363-883A067EE396.jpeg
     
  2. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    Welcome to the board.

    It is always hard to date cuckoo clocks from the case styles, since they remained much the same for many years. The mark GBB is that of Joseph Burger & Sons, well-known manufacturers of cuckoo movements.

    As for the clocks themselves, I would estimate the first one to be the elder of the two you have posted, but I am not expert in cuckoos and would not like to put a date on it. Others who know more will be along soon, I am sure.

    You have come to the right place!

    JTD
     
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  3. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Often cuckoos are made by several concerns so it's kind of difficult (or imposable) to say this is a xxx cuckoo made in the year xxx.

    Both of you clocks have cuckoo and quail type movements.

    Your first clock is a fox and grape motif. The pedistal style gong is bit unusual and I would place it around 1925.

    The second clock is a hunting style and missing it's top piece. I would place it a little later, like early 1930s.

    Sometimes the just pre WW-II clocks and just post WW-II clocks are very similar. Your second clock could fall into this category.

    My 2, Willie X
     
  4. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    JTD,

    After reading your response, I researched this board, along with Mikrolisk.de, and found that the information provided is somewhat confusing with respect to Joseph Burger and Sons. I am hoping you may be able to alleviate some of the confusion.

    1. I assume that you refer to the firm of Josef Burger Soehne of Schonach. An advertisement of that firm is in the following link. Is my assumption correct?

    https://mb.nawcc.org/attachments/j-burger-jpg.205584/

    2. Is the firm of Josef Burger Soehne the creator of the trademark "Regula"?

    3. My question number 2 is based on statements throughout the message board that Regula was created by Burger KG, also of Schonach. I assume that the two firms are essentially the same firm. Is this your understanding?

    4. If Burger is the creator of Regula, do we know whether they ceased using the GBB TM upon the creation of the Regula TM? If so, we may be able to state to the OP that his clock with the GBB movement is no later than xxx.

    5. Finally (and this is what ignited my curiosity), do we know what the connection is between the TM "GBB" and Josef Burger? A TM of "JB" or "JBS" or the like makes more sense than "GBB".

    Thank you very much.

    Regards.
     
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  5. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    #5 JTD, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019

    Just to answer your (very useful) questions as best I can:

    1. Yes
    2. Yes
    3. Yes
    4. No, I wanted to try to date the OPs clock as you described, but cannot from memory remember any cut-off date for the TM.
    5. I don't know, but would like to. I agree with you the GBB is curious and not immediately obvious. I am away from home for the next 3 months or so and so don't have access to any of my books. I will see if I can find out.

    If Ii remember rightly the whole history of Burger is quite complex but I think your suppositions are right.

    All the above answers given n the understanding that I am speaking from memory and without any books!

    JTD
     
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  6. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Jan 15, 2004
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    Just to clarify, the initials we are looking at are GGB. Perhaps (and this is a guess) those initials stand for Gießerei Gebrüder Burger, hearkening back to the early Messinggießerei (brass foundry) founded by the Burger brothers in 1856. As I say, just a guess, but the initials are GGB.
     
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  7. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Steven is right, he almost always is........

    It was my error in mis-typing GBB instead of GGB in my first post, even though I knew it was GGB. As for what it means, all things considered, I think that Giesserei Gebrueder Burger is a very reasonable answer to the puzzle and one which I should have thought of myself.

    Thank you Steven.

    JTD
     
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  8. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Glad to help, but I still ain't sure. I figured you'd just made a typo, sumethink I almost naver do miseff.:D
     
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  9. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Thanks again, JTD.

    The GBB TM generated my curiosity and the more I researched, the more confusing the scenario became. Reasonable assumptions could easily have been made (such as the Burger KG being the same firm as the former Josef Burger Soehne firm), but I would prefer to have confirmations. (I am respecting the caveats that you provided above.)

    Another interesting piece of information came to light that may or may not be related to clocks, but I will throw it out to board.

    Assuming that Mikrolisk.de is correct in stating the legal name of the firm today is "Burger KG", the firm is operating as a partnership. Trying to equate and reconcile U.S. and German corporate / business / tax / and civil law (which could be a disconnect in my thinking), a KG is similar to a partnership in the U.S. In the U.S., a partnership offers little legal protection to the partners. As a result, it is very rare that a manufacturing company (as opposed to a services firm) would conduct business as a partnership. Manufacturing firms would conduct business as a corporation (or an "AG" in Germany) or a limited liability company (or a "GmbH" in Germany).

    The answers to the above can probably be answered only by an expert in German law, but the clock related question (in my mind at least) is whether Josef Burger Soehne at some point engaged with another clock firm to create Burger KG.

    We may never know the answer, but it would be interesting to know.

    Regards.
     
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  10. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    #10 JTD, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
    As for the type of company, Burger has been several.
    In 1886 they were an OHG (Offene Handelsgesellschaft [Open Trading Partnership]).
    In 1910 they became a G.m.b.H. (Gesellschaft mit beschraenkter Haftung [limited liability company])
    Around 1958 they became a KG (Kommanditgesellschaft [limited commercial partnership]).

    I cannot explain the different legal technicalities of each.

    Yes, the Burgers did absorb at least one other clock company, Badische Uhrenfabrik (Baduf), which went bankrupt in 1983. Baduf was taken over by SBS Feintechnik, which was formed when Burgers split into two companies.

    JTD
     
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  11. Janzen

    Janzen New Member

    Sep 19, 2019
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    Thank you for responding!!
    Here are a few more that I was able to snap photos of this morning.
    80E556A2-AA2A-4831-9E8B-12BB39DF2E71.jpeg
    A4D3F973-06BE-44C3-B347-F3C00785B153.jpeg B9DB9010-EB84-4FC3-BC7C-E2A2CDE3C453.jpeg
    C9B5B572-6823-4081-B06E-247E644C1065.jpeg B3F5E818-1B8C-47EF-B496-A3E2A22B1916.jpeg 243448BA-8993-4ECE-AE9C-13C105566F9E.jpeg
    E2EBD982-524E-4442-BF01-3CB6E1C8CA21.jpeg 7A7096EC-46D8-48BC-9DD9-850D210175B7.jpeg 34AA9319-856E-466B-9072-B45B1B088B26.jpeg
     
  12. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    #12 Willie X, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
    With the 3rd clock (5 leaf) and 5th clock
    (multi color w. MB) you are probably into the post WW-II to very early 1950s era.

    The 4th clock has the (live anamal) hunting motif and is modern, probably post 1985.

    Posting more than one clock at a time can get very confusing.. It would probably be best to post them one at a time.and wait until the comments start to fade before posting another.

    Willie X
     
  13. Janzen

    Janzen New Member

    Sep 19, 2019
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    Thank you Willie. I appreciate your response and I will head your advice going forward.
     

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