Help identify old 400 day clock

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by gintarasb64, May 13, 2018.

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  1. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

    Oct 1, 2012
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    Hello,
    I bought this old 400 day clock, disc pendulum, wooden case. I think that movement is by Badische but pendulum looks like Kienzle. The serial number of the movement and pendulum does not match. Unfortunately the case is not in good condition, it seems that had many repairs in the past. Any comments are very welcome.
    Regards
    Gintaras

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  2. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    The repair guide seems to indicate that it is Badische, either plate 1628 or 1677, although the guide's plates have a large hole in the middle of the plate. I have a pendulum like that, not mated to a clock. The info I was provided was that it is pendulum #38 and the guide says Kienzle clock factories. The other info I got was that my pendulum #38 could go on a Huber with a pin pallet and lantern pinions.

    Kurt
     
  3. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

    Oct 1, 2012
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    Thank's Kurt for this information. Horolovar Repair Guide tells that 4 ball pendulum have to be used with plate 1628 and 1677. I found few Badische 4 ball pendulums in repair guide, which one could be good for these plates?


    Best regards
    Gintaras
     
  4. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Good question! For each of the Badische pendulums shown in the guide, I've scratched that out and put another clock manufacturer per information post on the forum over the past few years. So, at this point, none of the pendulums in the guide are shown for Badische. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will have an answer.

    Kurt
     
  5. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Oct 25, 2010
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    The movement for this clock was made by Huber. The complete clock could have been sold by Huber or Kienzle, or Badische if it has the "crescent B" marking on it somewhere, or some other reseller.

    Eric
     
  6. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Eric is correct that the movement for this clock was made by Huber.

    Now, I've said it before and I will say it again for the record: There is no evidence whatever that Badische ever made standard size 400-Day movements. In fact they bought movements or complete clocks from other makers starting in the late 1890s and continuing until the late 1920s. They "did" assemble many clocks, using their own case designs, pediments, pendulums, dials, etc. in which they installed the purchased movements.

    One more point for the record: Every plate in the Repair Guide that is shown to be made by Badische was actually made by Andreas Huber. Further, the dating on most of those plates is either completely wrong or unreliable. If you wish, you can go through the Repair Guide and cross out the name "Badische" on ALL the plates that are shown to be made by them and write in "Andreas Huber".

    This clock has Plate 1628, which my data shows as made for Badische by Huber. The hole shown to be in the center of Plate 1628, Plate 1443, and Plate 1677 examples of this specific design slot opening at the top of the plate seem to come and go for unknown reasons. Of the 12 serial numbered movements documented with this plate design, only four have the center hole, including the one in the illustration. All of the clocks documented to date with this plate design also have solid fixed pallets, which appears to be a feature of clocks made for Badische. I have one clock dated in October 1918 which has the highest serial number so far (4240), which together with the solid pallet anchor has led me to conclude that this design was the first specific plate made for Badische by Huber, from mid-1915 to the end of 1918. This clock would have been made about mid-1916 based on its serial number.

    The other specific plate design made for Badische with the double round bottom slot openings for pallet inspection, (Plates 1015, 1019, 1019A, 1318, and 1643) was introduced in late 1918 or early 1919 and continued to be used for all Badische clocks made by Huber until they stopped production in late 1928. These clocks all have the solid pallet anchor and feature an additional pivot bridge on the front plate not present on the other Huber movement designs.

    Regarding pendulums, the one with this clocks is a No. 38 made for Kienzle. The serial number shows it was made near the beginning of 1921 and would have been with a Huber movement made for Kienzle.

    The correct pendulums for clocks assembled by or made for Badische include ONLY pendulum No. 28 (or its variant with the rating nut in the center between the arms), or a disc pendulum that is not in the Repair Guide. Here is a photo:
    1663*.01 Pend Side.jpg This pendulum has been documented with dozens of clocks made for BUF, starting with the first Huber movements (Plate 1041) in 1912 and continuing to the end of production in 1928. The disc is stamped brass over a steel shell, with ring weights inside. The bottom cover is also stamped with a large hole in the center in which a stamped steel cup is inserted over the center shaft and the assembly nut screwed to the shaft. To my knowledge this pendulum was used only by Badische.

    There are many more details but not enough time or room to post here, search for any post in the 400-Day forum that I have posted and that has "BUF" and you will find much more info about the Badische saga. As I mentioned above, the timeline starts in the late 1890s when BUF bought Andreas Huber movements and clocks. After the turn of the century they bought movements and clocks from Huber until early 1904, Ph. Hauck from 1904-1906, and JUF from 1903-1911. Then all their movements came from Huber from 1912 to 1928.
     
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  7. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

    Oct 1, 2012
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    Kurt, Eric, John thank you very much for information. I will try to look for good pendulum. By the way maybe you have in your records Kienzle movement with serial number 13502 ? Maybe there is owner of this movement who is looking for original pendulum? I will gladly pass it for good restoration.
    Best regards
    Gintaras
     

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