Help identify maker of this movement

[THTanner]

This movement is from a Camel Back clock of some sort. The clock came in with a replacement dial with no name, a replace back door with no label, and there are no markings anywhere on the movement.

I think it is a German movement with 1.8mm thick plates and all of the pivot holes have bushings. There are a couple that are a bit like an oval triangle that I assume are replacements. I have never seen a bushing like this, but it seems ok.

All of the wheels seem stamped since there are little ridges of brass still on the inside edges on one side.

The dial is 7 inches and there is a large, very fine brass coil gong.

A couple of features new to me are how the winding arbors are fitted to the main springs. The arbors fit through a tube that goes through the barrels and a pin is inserted in the arbor to fix it to the tube which has the hook for the spring. The time side has the normal orientation but the strike side is reversed which will make putting the sleeve in the barrel a bit tricky.

thanks for your help
tom

 

[Isaac]

An interesting movement, and a step up from the typical americaner type movements since it has solid pinions throughout the trains. Also interesting regarding the winding arbors.

Do you have pictures of the gong block/assembly? Even when they are unnamed, they can help identify potential makers and narrow things down a little bit.

 

[THTanner]

This is the gong - and the pendulum bob is a simple brass round 2 1/8 inches

 

[THTanner]

I thought that the pinned arbor would allow the removal of the main springs without splitting the plates - and perhaps it does on a different movement. But on this movement, while you can pull the arbors, you cannot get the barrels out past the wheels and the posts. I will make sure to tap those pins in nice and tight like I found them. Having a pin slip out even part way under load would be a nasty surprise.

 

[Isaac]

Hmm. The gong reminds me of some of the HAC tombstone-shaped gongs, but I can't say for sure that it's a HAC product.

 

[THTanner]

Unusual spring size - the ID of the barrel is 44mm - the spring width is 17.8mm and the strength is 0.4mm

The springs were quite rusty and the barrels full of rust dust which was the main issue. I cannot find any spring close enough to swap so I am working the old ones and have them pretty well cleaned up. The odd spring size makes me think perhaps this is a copy of some other movement and was made in India where I have seen odd sized springs before.

If anyone knows of a 17,8mm x 0,4mm I would love to have a link

The closest I can find are 17.5mm x 0.46mm or 17.5mm x 0.38mm in a loop end that is long enough to cut down and make a hole end. I am pretty sure the 0.46 of the same length would not fit in the barrel so if I have to I will replace with the 0.38mm. The 17.8 and the 17.5 are close enough that a washer shim should not be needed.

 

[Isaac]

If it is indeed a product from India, it does seem to be of respectable quality. Another good point for it being a later movement is the fact that there are indeed solid pinions on a cut-out plate movement, where solid pinions are easier to manufacture with a CNC lathe nowadays than their lantern pinion counterparts.

 

[chimeclockfan]

Looks like something from Urgos or Petersen to me but cannot confirm without going through other clocks and what little literature exists. I don't know of any German-style Indian movements, just the American patterns with open springs.

 

[THTanner]

Looks like something from Urgos or Petersen to me but cannot confirm without going through other clocks and what little literature exists. I don't know of any German-style Indian movements, just the American patterns with open springs.

Thanks for you input. My suspicion about India had to do with the odd spring size and large barrels. I ran into similar size on a clock about 3 years ago that was marked as being from India, but i know very little about identifying movements based on physical characteristics. The India clock had a broken spring and swelled barrel that I could not replace and had to work around. But in that clock the case was marked as being from India not the movement itself, so that is quit possibly a bad assumption on my part.

The real puzzle to me is how the arbors are pinned. So far I have not been able to find any other examples.

 

[D.th.munroe]

I have and have repaired mauthe movements with the same pinned arbors
Heres one this is the same movement as this one Help - How to let down a Mauthe mainspring? but missing the winding gears

 

[THTanner]

I have and have repaired mauthe movements with the same pinned arbors
Heres one this is the same movement as this one Help - How to let down a Mauthe mainspring? but missing the winding gears

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Thanks so much - that is certainly what this one is then. Working the springs on these is a bit of a challenge, especially the "backwards" one.