Help identify Disc pendulum clock

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Shayne, Feb 27, 2012.

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  1. Shayne

    Shayne Registered User

    Dec 17, 2008
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    Hi Can the experts please help me identify this clock as it has no serial and no stamp. I am guessing JUF . The inner side of the back plate has 7 stamped on it close to the barrel. I think the pendulum may have had some sort of cover. Suspension guard is missing again no harm.
    The dial is cracked no chipping anywhere so I am thinking once its cleaned the dirt will not highlight the cracks. Will cleaning with just mild soap and water cause any harm to the dial since I do not want to use any chemicals.
    The clock came with a copper/bronze suspension wire I changed it and it is now running within 2 mins + in one week a little more adjustment on the pendulum should better that.

    I am really happy with this clock even though the dial is cracked I always wanted one with the small dial.

    Thanks
    Shayne
     

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  2. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Dec 20, 2007
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    It's definitely JUF, late production, 1930s, maybe late 1920s. The pendulum is also JUF but usually supplied with more upmarket cases, it does not usually have a bottom cover. It may or may not be original to the clock, I suspect the latter. This case style usually come with 4-ball pendulums.

    I would not call it a small dial, this is the standard 2&3/4". Much earlier clocks(1880-early 1900s can come with with 2&1/4").

    It only has stamp marks for the thread holes for a suspension guard attachment. This clock would have been supplied without.

    It is an enamel dial, soap and water is fine, but you can be a little bit more aggressive, but it will still be difficult to hide the cracks.

    Did you source it in India or elsewhere? It is surprising where these clocks turn up.
     
  3. Shayne

    Shayne Registered User

    Dec 17, 2008
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    Thanks Les for your info My Dad was a watch repairer and collected a few clocks so he surely sourced them here. There used to be many serious clock collecters in India earlier but not anymore.

    Shayne
     
  4. Shayne

    Shayne Registered User

    Dec 17, 2008
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    Hi Les since nothing much is happening on the 400 day forum I have been reading the older posts (many of the clocks you posted for John to document).
    I understand you love pre WW1 and there is something I would like to ask and this would be concerning disc pendulums. I have read replies to some of the clocks posted where it states the pendulum may not be original to the clock.(Including my post). Les what I dont understand is just because a pendulum does not have a serial # how can we take it to be not original to the clock.

    This raises the question did clock manufactures outsourced disc pendulums and is it possible that it was sold as spares or how else would it turn up on a clock? I agree it may not be original where one specific design or style is mismatched with another makers clock . Lets say a clock with everything except the pendulum matches the RG or any other book would it mean that the pendulum is not original to the clock?
    Could the earlier owner have polished the pendulum and erased the serial no. I have read something about this somewhere in this forum. Les since you have many of these clocks with matching serials can you tell me if they were stamped embossed or etched.

    Since these pendulums would differ in weight would that not affect the timing if you were to follow the RG for spring thickness?

    I am sorry I might be asking too many questions at once but I just need to or else I forget.

    Thanks

    Shayne
     
  5. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Dec 20, 2007
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    Hi Shayne, thanks for the interesting question. I can only quote from my experience. I do not keep exhaustive databases like John. I am sure he will provide a more definitive answer, but I will do my best.

    I do not know for certain whether pendulums were made by the clock/movement manufacturers. However in the majority of cases they held the patents, so I would assume in most cases they were the manufacturers or put the work out to jobbers under their license. Originality of the pendulum type/design match to the movement can only be confirmed by original catalogues or advertisements and correlation from regular occurences in databases like John's.

    Post WW1 you do not often encounter matching marks on pendulums, there are exceptions.

    Numbers can be inked, stamped or etched. Any proper cleaning will remove ink marks. Inking is the more prevalent method.

    I have only seen stamping on Grivolas(pretty sure they made the pendulums for their own manufacture movements) and secondary lower plates/covers on Wurth/JUF/Kienzle etc. Sometimes this is only an abbreviation of the movement serial no. Sometimes it is a patent no.

    The rest have had inked or etched numbers, or none.

    There is a certain style to the etched and inked numbers, which I can only describe as an Italic German. Unless you have complete history of the clock's ownership/maintenance, you cannot be sure that it is original, but you can make an educated guess. It is not unusual to find slight mis-matching of numbers, probably occurred at original retailer/distributor.

    Turned solid brass pendulums and the Becker, type 23 in the guide, would unlikely originally have had any extra weighting.

    The pressed/spun disk pendulums have added weight. The original would usually been a lead ring or disk or both, usually, but not always, covered by a plate. Some Kienzle/Badische have steel disks, but they are usually post WW1. It is not at all unusual to encounter added weight. Before Horolovar a good variety of suspension springs were not so easily available. Repairers did their best to compensate, and for some time after. Added weight is not usually difficult to identify. It would be useful if any republication of the 400 Day Guide included correct pendulum weights. As far as I am aware this forum is the only current source for that answer.

    I hope that is a complete enough answer for you. I hope John adds his comments.
     
  6. Shayne

    Shayne Registered User

    Dec 17, 2008
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    Thank you Les, your info does help me as well as anyone who reads this post. I am sure John will add to this.

    If Hauck used the ink method then I know what happened to my serial.

    Les did Becker make a 4 ball ?

    Thanks

    Shayne
     
  7. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Dec 20, 2007
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    Yes they did, it appeared fairly late in their production and is more often seen with the later clocks after the Junghans takeover.
     
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