Hampden Railroad Watches

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Tom McIntyre, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    80,908
    1,004
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    We seem to be having a Hampden fans convention this month.

    I mentioned I was fond of the New York Watch Co in another thread but I think they also made some very good railroad watches.

    I think the two best grades are the 104 and 105 but since the 104 is a 23 jewel watch I picked up a OF and HC version of it.

    Here is the open face with an oversized boss on the jeweled barrel.
    5015E8C4-7F5D-41F3-A978-4D28F0C71D7F.jpeg FEF44D6C-F916-41E1-B0E9-A7D46D84CA79.jpeg D8CACBD9-2BE0-438D-9FA9-DF304B48467B.jpeg FFFB3D6D-B2C9-4E48-9F42-09EAA360DC5C.jpeg 9D53CD72-8854-4556-97C7-6394B5430891.jpeg F4D6C252-F972-46A3-9AAE-E43BDFF2721F.jpeg

    Here is the rather earlier hunting case.
    6BE28363-B351-46A4-AC4F-B1EC955FF2E3.jpeg 749E5684-6325-4581-8207-1F1FD6AF71E5.jpeg 730CF81F-CFFE-4D44-8355-7F1BC659381D.jpeg 7D998C13-B8E6-4545-9D42-F083AB19DFD7.jpeg A805557C-330F-4368-98E8-6B49F5CD022D.jpeg 5D98B8A6-2E6F-4C2F-B1F6-8AD29871DA8C.jpeg E97E553E-1783-4900-BF9D-9130A48E60C0.jpeg 8D535149-3906-4143-A9C4-A7BD5EA96006.jpeg
     
  2. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

    Mar 31, 2010
    632
    279
    63
    retired
    Georgia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    "We seem to be having a Hampden fans convention this month" by TM. Hope he is right.

    I'll join this fun. Thought I would do a side by side comparison of the No. 104 and No. 105.

    Interestingly my open face No. 105 is in a Deuber 2-tone case.

    DSC_0002a.jpg DSC_0004a.jpg
     
  3. musicguy

    musicguy Registered User
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jan 12, 2017
    2,559
    716
    113
    New York State
    Country Flag:
    Here is a watch I don't own anymore(sold it) but it was a beautiful
    looking Hampden RR watch.

    railway 2.jpg


    Rob
     
  4. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    4,155
    265
    83
    It's been great to see all the recent discussion of Hampden/New York. A reminder that there is more than Waltham, Hamilton, Illinois and the usual suspects out there to consider.
     
  5. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
    NAWCC Member Donor

    Jul 15, 2009
    2,956
    88
    48
    Chemist
    Kentucky
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Not much of a Hampden guy, but here are two pieces from my PL collection-the first a Springfield "Railway" where someone unfortunately buffed the plates, and the second a two tone "D Star in Flag."

    I didn't appreciate how good of a watch the D Star in Flag was, but Bob Arnold seemed favorably impressed when I showed it to him(missing regulator spring not withstanding).

    IMG_0456.jpg

    IMG_3681.jpg
     
  6. Richard Hufnagel

    Richard Hufnagel Just Rick!
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 25, 2018
    318
    359
    63
    Male
    Plumber
    Pittsburgh pa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I also love all the Hampden talk!

    First one I showed in another thread..
    Grade 107 d star model 1!


    The next one is arguably rr grade. Actually I'd love someone to argue it because that would mean you know how it's adjusted ... And I don't. But it's 17 jewels 18s adjusted Menlo Park. It's just a nice watch. It's out for repair and ive been crossing my fingers. 1157167 is the serial. Sorry pics aren't that great it was taken with my old phone.

    The grade 35 keywind I showed in the early Hampden thread is supposedly railroad grade too. The databases all say it's adjusted. Once again to what, I haven't a clue. But for 1879-1880 I'm under the impression it would fly.

    I also have a 108 d in flag model 2 but it's not marked adjusted so it doesn't fly, so if looking at a d in flag make sure it says adjusted! I wouldn't call it a mistake, I still think it's a great watch.

    Have a good night!

    IMG_20181129_153411693.jpg IMG_20181016_172044244.jpg IMG_20181016_172031672.jpg
     
  7. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    Not necessarily so in earlier years. When it first appeared, it was available as a 17 or 23 jewel movement.

    16S_17J_No_104_Hampden_803539_Model_2.jpg 16S_23J_Hampden_1091804_104_SR_Mod_1_OF.jpg
     
    Keith R... and viclip like this.
  8. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    Here are some other Hampden watches that were accepted into Railroad Time Service.

    For those who may be unaware of the fact, models 4 and 5 grade No, 105 movements are the 'nameless' version of the 21-jewel models 4 and 5 Wm McKinley grade movements. They are identically described and priced (see upper right-hand corner of the 1917 catalog sheet, below).

    pg_DH03_Hampden_16S_RR.jpg comparison_15j_vs_17j-jpg.jpg 16S_19J_Rwy_2931618_Mod_4_KLS.jpg 16S_19J_Rwy_3312081_Mod_5_KLS.jpg 16S_21J_No_105_3027705_Mod_4_KLS.jpg 16S_21J_No_105_3394962_Mod_5_KLS.jpg 16S_21J_WMK_HC_1790260_Mod_4_KLS.jpg 16S_21J_WMK_3381541_Mod_5_KLS.jpg
     
  9. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    Here are a few more that would pass inspection as a Railroad Watch:

    16S_23J_No_104_Hampden_1482028.jpg 16S_23J_No_104_Hampden_2142144_Model_4.jpg 16S_23J_No_104_Hampden_1091884_Model_1.jpg 18S_17J_Anchor_2431237.jpg 18S_21J_Dueber_3031994.jpg 18S_23J_SR_1189411.jpg 18S_15J_Rail-Way_52411_Steve_Cunningham.jpg
     
    Keith R... and viclip like this.
  10. vintageguy

    vintageguy Registered User
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Oct 27, 2013
    102
    39
    28
    Male
    Attorney
    Minnetonka, MN
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #10 vintageguy, Feb 26, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
    I think this one is really cool - 16S John C. Dueber # 2466147.

    I do need to ask about the dial, though. The color of the sunk portion with the signature is lighter in color than the rest of the dial, which indicated to me that the dial may have been repaired. Does anyone know if the dial on this watch should be signed "John C. Dueber"?

    Pic 1.JPG Pic 2.JPG Pic 3.jpg
     
  11. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    On a number of Hampden watches the enamel of the seconds bits of the dials have aged to a slightly different color than the other dial parts. This may be attributed to the fact that the seconds bits were created and fired separately from the center and/or hour chapter. However, this is only speculation on my part.

    Regarding the dial signature. I believe that only the earlier 15 and 17 jewel John C. Dueber and John C. Dueber Special grades were fitted with dials having that signature.
     
    Keith R... and vintageguy like this.
  12. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

    Mar 31, 2010
    632
    279
    63
    retired
    Georgia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    So many great Hampden watches.
    I found this one at an estate sale years ago.

    DSC_0005a.jpg DSC_0001 (2)bcdg.jpg
     
  13. Lee Passarella

    Lee Passarella Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jul 8, 2015
    168
    163
    43
    Male
    tech writer
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I'm glad you posted your watch, luvsthetick. The movement is great. And I notice that your dial is similar to the one on my New Railway, though mine is missing your red numerals for the seconds. It's a slightly strange one, with the tiny second-hand area, not to mention the Roman numerals and 24-hour marks below them. I wondered if this kind of dial might be mean the watches were for the Canadian market. Anybody know if this is true?

    Also, as I said, mine is a New Railway. Anybody know what the grade would be? Or if it even has a grade? In fact, any additional information about my watch would be helpful. The databases estimate it was made in 1901. When I got it, I didn't even know it was designed for the railroad; I just thought the dial was cool. So I was pretty naïve that point in my collecting career. In fact, I just looked at the movement because of this thread and was surprised to find it was a New Railway. Surprised because I just bought one the other day not even knowing had one in my collection! Just call me the proverbial fool who is easily parted from his green stuff. Or was. I'm sadder and wiser now than I was when I bought my FIRST New Railway.

    IMG_0417.JPG IMG_0421.JPG
     
  14. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    New Railway was the grade. It varied at times with the Special Railway grade as to which one was at the top of the line.

    1896_A_C_Becken_Cat_Pg_02_Hampden_18S.jpg pg_DH02_Hampden_18S.jpg 1898_JanHampden_JH-SR.jpg
     
    viclip and vintageguy like this.
  15. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    Here are a few more Hampden railroad grade watches:

    18S_21J_Hampden_Special_Railway_2751941_OF_EBU.jpg 18S_21J_Hampden_North_ American_Railway_1560512_EBU.jpg 18S_21J_Hampden_John_Hancock_2199295_EBU.jpg 1909_Nov_Hampden_RR_Grades.jpg 1909_Dec_Hampden_RR_Grades.jpg 1910_Aug_A_Dueber-Hampden_Watch.jpg
     
  16. Lee Passarella

    Lee Passarella Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jul 8, 2015
    168
    163
    43
    Male
    tech writer
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    OK, this helps, Kent. Thanks.
     
  17. captainscarlet

    captainscarlet Registered User

    Oct 15, 2013
    408
    14
    18
    British Army RTD
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I knew I had a Hampden stashed away somewhere. So here it is.
    DSC03536.JPG DSC03539.JPG DSC03540.JPG DSC03542.JPG
    Not that familiar with American watches, so it has just languished in a drawer for years.
     
    Kevin W., viclip, vintageguy and 2 others like this.
  18. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
    Donor

    Dec 28, 2010
    957
    33
    28
    So. Cal., USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I once had an interesting Hampden pass through my hands. It was a Lafayette Special with a mere 15 jewels. I kind of wish I had been smart enough to keep it. I bought a couple of watches from an older lady who lived down the street from me in the early 2000's. Either that or I sold them for her? I just can't remember which. :confused: It had a very nice dial, as well as a cool train engraved case. I somehow doubt there are a lot of these out there.

    LaFayette1.jpg Lafayette2.jpg Lafayette3.jpg
     
  19. Mike M.

    Mike M. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 31, 2009
    56
    19
    8
    Male
    Hamburg, Germany or Central Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I ended up with quite a few Hampdens in my collection because there are so many variations in damaskeening, I kept running across new ones I just couldn’t live without.
    Here‘s one I like a lot. It is an early 16s, 17j, tu-tone Special Railway (SR in flag).

    3AAAA4F3-4681-42DB-A99E-01540B56FFCB.jpeg 94FE9A9A-5A68-45F6-A369-0ED8BCF1A4FD.jpeg 0EBC29EB-2567-4480-9772-B822A7342444.jpeg
     
  20. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

    Mar 31, 2010
    632
    279
    63
    retired
    Georgia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #20 luvsthetick, Feb 27, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    I have to agree with Mike's statements in post #20 concerning Hampden's damaskeening.

    Here is a Hampden 3-ball. I bought it for its damaskeening and case.
    Since it rates a line by itself in the fat book, I thought I would give it a post in this thread.

    DSC_0011a.jpg DSC_0008a.jpg
     
  21. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    This is perhaps a good time to bring up the point that; although Dueber-Hampden may have meant for people to make the connection, they have never referred to the 16-size, Nos, 104 and 105 movements (those having the "SR" of "NR" in flags on the movements) by the "Special Railway" or "New Railway" names in any of the literature (catalogs, advertising, etc.) that has come to light to date.

    While I'm at it; although I posted a picture of the 18-size, 21-jewel "Dueber Watch Co." grade movement in my post #9 (above), and although it seems to have the attributes of a Railroad Watch (being lever-set and marked "Adjusted Five Positions" and "Double Roller"), no Dueber-Hampden literature has come to light advertising or referring to it as a railroad watch. Even the 1917 Oskamp-Nolting reproduction of the Dueber-Hampden catalog page in post 15 above has three 18-size movements in the top row (the New Railway, the Special Railway and the John Hancock) below which is written "Above are Railroad Grades". The 18-size, 21-jewel "Dueber Watch Co." grade movement is shown below that in the second row. Thus, the 18-size, 21-jewel "Dueber Watch Co." grade movement may not have been accepted into railroad service on all that many railroads.
     
  22. okiejohn

    okiejohn Registered User

    Nov 22, 2013
    18
    25
    3
    #22 okiejohn, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    Here's my favorite Hampden, a 23 jewel "Special Railway" beauty I inherited from my grand uncle, who I was named after. It's the watch that got me started in this maddeningly fulfilling hobby! Includes my grand uncle's original fob/chain with compass. SN 1201272

    abd11e461f0660a491c2c9e5a6f84789.JPG 1c48d22712fd4b2481695a597f9d2340.JPG
     
  23. okiejohn

    okiejohn Registered User

    Nov 22, 2013
    18
    25
    3
    Here's another of my favorite Hampdens, I got from a Canadian auction. It's a North American Railway 18S 21J, SN 3154593. They sure made pretty movements!

    b1733678e561042086b3397ab69e910d.JPG 23b08a93372cb64a7f4b25ad492301ca.JPG 4f49829d78e787ed7f576105a20de201.JPG
     
  24. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

    Sep 20, 2006
    744
    50
    28
    Male
    North Andover, MA USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here's a pair of private label Railway grade 18S 15J Hampdens.

    Hampden Railway Seidel Mvmt.jpg Hampden Railway Seidel Dial.jpg Hampden Railway Sundberg Mvmt.jpg Hampden Railway Sundberg Dial.jpg
     
    Kent, Keith R... and viclip like this.
  25. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

    Sep 20, 2006
    744
    50
    28
    Male
    North Andover, MA USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here's a pair of 18S 21J John Hancock grade Hampdens.

    Hampden Hancock Dial.jpg Hampden Hancock Mvmt.jpg Hampden John Hancock Dial.jpg Hampden John Hancock Mvmt.jpg
     
    Kent, Keith R... and viclip like this.
  26. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

    Sep 20, 2006
    744
    50
    28
    Male
    North Andover, MA USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here's a 18S 17J New Railway grade Hampden.

    Hampden New Railway Max Roy Dial.jpg Hampden New Railway Max Roy Mvmt.jpg
     
  27. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

    Sep 20, 2006
    744
    50
    28
    Male
    North Andover, MA USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here's a 16S 17J Wm McKinley grade Hampden.

    Hampden WmMckinley Dial.jpg Hampden WmMckinley Mvmt.jpg
     
    luvsthetick, Keith R... and viclip like this.
  28. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

    Sep 20, 2006
    744
    50
    28
    Male
    North Andover, MA USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here's a 16S 23J grade No. 104 Hampden.

    Hampden 104 Dial.jpg Hampden 104 Mvmt.jpg
     
  29. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    Stan:

    You've put up pictures of some nice railroad watches!

    However, by the time that the Wm McKinley grade was introduced (late 1902), and especially when the model 5 showed up years later, railroads were no longer permitting watches only adjusted to temperature (which the 17-jewel Wm McKinley was) to enter service.
     
  30. D Magner

    D Magner Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 27, 2004
    378
    19
    18
    Pennsylvania
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    17 jewel John C. Dueber from about 1889.
    David

    John C copy.jpg Dueber 046.jpg
     
  31. Lee Passarella

    Lee Passarella Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jul 8, 2015
    168
    163
    43
    Male
    tech writer
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Oh, I like that one, Mr. Magner. Kind of a vanity project, but very nice.
     
  32. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 26, 2000
    17,941
    988
    113
    Country Flag:
    David:

    I love the watch, but it probably dates to no earlier than the Fall of 1891.

    1891_Oct_Hampden_JCD_Spcl.jpg
     
  33. D Magner

    D Magner Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 27, 2004
    378
    19
    18
    Pennsylvania
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Kent,
    That's great. I appreciate you posting that dated notice from Hampden.
    David
     
  34. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

    Sep 20, 2006
    744
    50
    28
    Male
    North Andover, MA USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Kent said:

    >> You've put up pictures of some nice railroad watches!

    Thanks. That's all the Hampdens I own. I haven't had much money for watch collecting and Hampdens tend to be cheaper than other makers. (Confession <hangs head>: I have been collecting other art in addition to watches. <realizes this admission is blasphemy>)

    >> However, by the time that the Wm McKinley grade was introduced (late 1902), and especially when the model 5 showed up years later, railroads were no longer permitting watches only adjusted to temperature (which the 17-jewel Wm McKinley was) to enter service.

    I stand corrected. Thanks for the information.
     
  35. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Dec 4, 2009
    3,696
    191
    63
    1979 startup ABCO Industrial Sales
    Boulder, CO Foothills
    Region Flag:
    #35 artbissell, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    Hard to photograph this colorful one in original Hampden glass back case. Maybe a sales demonstrater. artbissell.

    IMG_1730c.jpg IMG_1718c.jpg IMG_1719c.jpg
     
  36. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 27, 2012
    4,868
    953
    113
    Male
    Retired Sr. Proj. mgr,
    South
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Art, that's probably one of my favorite dials of all time. Also Hampden had a great
    nickel finish on their watches.

    Keith R...

    103_8463 (800x600).jpg 103_8090 (800x600).jpg
     
    viclip and luvsthetick like this.
  37. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Dec 4, 2009
    3,696
    191
    63
    1979 startup ABCO Industrial Sales
    Boulder, CO Foothills
    Region Flag:
    Comment appreciated. Bill Tapp was owner and probably its only servicer. He may have added the demo case, although I saw old advertizing sales of it with movements. artb
     
  38. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    4,155
    265
    83
    Back to Hampden railroad watches.

    The famous 15 jewel Railway, which began with New York and was continued by Hampden, was made almost exclusively with nickel plates. But there were a few of them made in gilt as well. I discovered one example after Hernick & Arnold published their terrific Hampden book so this rare variant didn't make it into their publication. And I don't have a pic of the mvt (that I can find anyway). Based on info in one of J. C. Perry's memo books the gilt Railway was sold for a short period in early 1888 (see below, original in my collection).

    img562.jpg
     
  39. Keith H

    Keith H Registered User

    May 18, 2004
    223
    14
    18
    Male
    Retired
    Southampton, England
    Country Flag:
    Here is my Canadian Pacific Hampden.

    183.jpg 184.jpg
     
    Kent, Keith R... and viclip like this.

Share This Page