Hamilton's 16s 960 - 969 Series Watches

[Robert Sweet]

FWIW, the later 972's have "17 Extra Fine Jewels in Gold Setting, Steel Escape Wheel", according to the late Lowell Halligan.

Robert

 

[pbuk]

another 961 for the record serial no 325974

 

[Fred Hansen]

A few more pics for the thread. 960, 961, 961, and 962 ...

http://www.fhwatch.com/watermark.php?image=iPW11029a08.jpg

http://www.fhwatch.com/watermark.php?image=iPW11028a10.jpg

http://www.fhwatch.com/watermark.php?image=iPW10786a10.jpg

http://www.fhwatch.com/watermark.php?image=iPW10779a07.jpg

 

[Frank N]

Recently I was lookup a Hamilton 964 serial number in the LASSER'S LIST book and noticed three runs for 964s that were shown as 964L, (lever set movements).

I don't recall reading any comments in the previous posts about 964L, (lever set) movements, but it has been some some since I went thru all the posts.

I am assuming the three runs with the 964L designation in the LASSER'S LIST is an error

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

A recently acquired 960, private label for W. A. Harris of Los Angeles, Cal. Serial number 324344.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Hamiltom 961 ser. no. 325896, 16s, HC, LS, Finished 1-09-09 sold 4-09-09 Johnston Co. N.J. (according to the Hamilton ledgers). Sadly, not in the original case.









Was recently serviced including a new MS and canon pinion.

 

[Jim Haney]

Recently I was lookup a Hamilton 964 serial number in the LASSER'S LIST book and noticed three runs for 964s that were shown as 964L, (lever set movements).

I don't recall reading any comments in the previous posts about 964L, (lever set) movements, but it has been some some since I went thru all the posts.

I am assuming the three runs with the 964L designation in the LASSER'S LIST is an error

Frank,
I received this reply from Dr. Lasser about your question. When you check Lasser's list there are only 4 watches marked 964 L and they may be a mistake or a converted one, but he can't remember the exact circumstances.

16s Lever sets were not made that early! There were some lever sets that were factory modifications and as you know this was randomly done. There is one in Grade 964 movement and I don't remember the serial number, but I can come up with it, if needed. There were no Grade 962's unless they were modified at the factory or by a watchmaker.


Fondest regards, Howard

 

[Fred Hansen]

An unusual one I recently had, a 965 marked with the grade number ...

 

[Jim Haney]

Fred,
Thanks for showing this.The Ledger page with the 50 serial numbers of the 965 in this run is a holy mess.

Looks like 20+ were returned and resold. This one was finished on 2-11-1904 and sold to Benj. Allen & Co on 12-12-1915.

By 1915 they were marking the grades on them.

We have seen some old 960's Series watches maked with grade numbers that were not origionaly marked , either due to the time they they sat in Inventory, or they were returned for repairs.

I believe that the customer was given a new watch and the repaired watch was resold to someone else.

 

[John Cote]

An unusual one I recently had, a 965 marked with the grade number ...

Nice Fred!

 

[Jim Haney]

962 Serial # 50031, a very early (30th 16s watch made) sold to Webb C. Ball on 12-12-1896

 

[John Cote]

Nice Jim!

 

[Nigel Harrison]

Yes very nice piece Jim.

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

Just came across this 966. Serial number 58,384. Unfortunately, missing its regulator whip...

 

[StephenT]

Thank you for this thread. I was travelling through the USA a few years ago and found this lovely working Hamilton 960 (s/n 751908) in a store in a small town near Willcox, Arizona and it came back with me to Australia

Am I correct in identifying it as one of the 3,000 960 L that were made ?

If anyone is able to assist me with any other information about it I would be most grateful.

Thank you

Steve

 

[musicguy]

Steve,

Welcome to the NAWCC Forum


Rob

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Hi Stephen,

Welcome to the NAWCC American PW forum!

Your watch is a 960 L(lever set) and also a "Special Finish" (the Damskeen pattern on the back of the watch movement, which was done especially for the large Jeweler Burr W. Freer of San Francisco. Hamilton in, it's early years, needed to cater to smaller jewelers to establish their reputation as a maker of high quality movements and one of the last large U.S. pocket watch makers to be established (after passing through earlier failed attempts).

It's one of the higher grade watches made by Hamilton and popular with Hamilton collectors.

 

[terry hall]

and very similar to the 994 pattern.. would like to see a larger pic... and of course welcome!

 

[John Cote]

Steve,

I am with Terry Hall. Please post a more closeup photo of the movement and the dial of this watch. You acquired a very interesting variant of the 960. It is a beautiful and, I think, a pretty important watch compared to a regular, run-of-the-mill 960.

 

[Fred Hansen]

Great find and that damaskeen is very rare among Grade 960 production.

 

[grtnev]

Very lovel960 - as others have asked, if you can provide closeup it would be much appreciated.

Richard

 

[grtnev]

Now for the scarcest of the 960 Series, the 967 with only 300 Produced. It may be less than 300. I have in Col. Townsend's notes that 28 were finished as 969, which would reduce the number to 272.

I wonder how many have survived, especially with grade number on the plates and a plain looking 3/4 plate 17 jewel movement.

When I started looking for one of these watches I looked for over 5 years. I looked in pawn shops, private auctions, Nawcc shows, other collectors, ebay , etc. and then I found 3 within a months time.

I am back down to one at the moment. I sold the others to fellow collectors who couldn't locate one. That what's it is all about.

The numbers I have owned are 53,943, 53,947 & 59,355.

Warning, there is a pieced up mess out there, serial number
53,946, with 3 different plates.



This is 59,355 , 2 views

Jim,

In addition to being adjusted to temp, isochronism, was the grade 967 adjusted to positions? If so how many?

Same question for grades 966-969.

Thanks,

Richard

 

[Jim Haney]

Richard,
This is what Halligan says about them,Hamilton did not keep good record until after 1900, so we would have to see advertising on these watches .

Howard Lasser wrote a bulletin article on them, It was Dec. 2008, Called,Henry J. Cain and 16s Movements, a chart on the 2nd pages says they were were adjusted to Temperature & positions ( I would assume 3) because the chart shows the 968/969 adjusted to 5 positions .

 

[grtnev]

Richard,
This is what Halligan says about them,Hamilton did not keep good record until after 1900, so we would have to see advertising on these watches .

Howard Lasser wrote a bulletin article on them, It was Dec. 2008, Called,Henry J. Cain and 16s Movements, a chart on the 2nd pages says they were were adjusted to Temperature & positions ( I would assume 3) because the chart shows the 968/969 adjusted to 5 positions .

View attachment 669879 View attachment 669880

Thanks

 

[Marc D]

Thanks

960 L

Serial number 751943, not working - marc

 

[syncro91]

Just picked up this (from what I'm told) all original Hamilton 969 in a full hunter case. One thing that gets me is that it's a private label (LO Hulberg, Northfield, Minn.) but pretty common hamilton dial. None the less, pretty excited to own this rather uncommon watch.

 

[John Cote]

Just picked up this (from what I'm told) all original Hamilton 969 in a full hunter case. One thing that gets me is that it's a private label (LO Hulberg, Northfield, Minn.) but pretty common hamilton dial. None the less, pretty excited to own this rather uncommon watch.

I have not seen enough of these to know if the dial is correct or not but you have a very scarce and beautiful watch. Maybe Rhett or Jim will chime in on the dial.

Below is a picture of the Hamilton Records for your watch. It was sold to Otto Young of Chicago which would have been the distributor who sold it to your private label jeweler. As it says, the watch was finished on January 3, 1905 and shipped to Otto Young on October 16, 1905.

It is very interesting that your watch shipped pretty quickly after the mfg date. Notice the long time between the manufacturing date and the ship date of the watches close in serial number. It is sort of typical or at least not unheard of for these high grade but obscure watch grades to in inventory until Hamilton decided to have a clearance sale. A lot of these watches were bought by A.N. Anderson of Minneapolis,

Anyway, nice watch.

 

[syncro91]

Wow, that is some fantastic information! Looks like, if I'm reading it correctly that serial numbers on either side went too Morris Allister Ball company?

You mention Otto Young was likely a distributor that would have sold it to the private label jeweler. Are there records that Otto was a distributor or could that have been a customer of the jeweler? I'm fairly new at this and I'm not familiar with how records were kept.

Thank you for the information and compliment!

 

[John Cote]

You mention Otto Young was likely a distributor that would have sold it to the private label jeweler. Are there records that Otto was a distributor or could that have been a customer of the jeweler? I'm fairly new at this and I'm not familiar with how records were kept.

There are records of who Hamilton used as distributors and Otto Young of Chicago was a large and well known distributor. When Hamilton started out they mostly sold directly to jewelers but as time went on and they got bigger they mostly sold through distributors. The name Otto Young is found often in these Hamilton records. Many of the watches that Otto Young is seen as receiving are private labels for jewelers all over the Midwest.

 

[syncro91]

Fascinating! I fell in love with pocket watches purely for the mechanism aspect but the more I learn the more enamored I become with the everything about them. It helps to have experts like yourself so willing to take the time to pass along the information you've collected. It's appreciated beyond belief!

 

[John Cote]

Fascinating! I fell in love with pocket watches purely for the mechanism aspect but the more I learn the more enamored I become with the everything about them. It helps to have experts like yourself so willing to take the time to pass along the information you've collected. It's appreciated beyond belief!

NAWCC members, including my father, helped me when I was starting and they continue to help me today. The least any of us can do is help, and on top of that most of us love this nerdy stuff. The help all of us give is a labor of love. You have come to the right place for watch info. Nobody but the NAWCC has this Hamilton info.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

960 16s 754079 (1910)

I bought this 960 back in 2021, over six years after acquiring a 961 posted earlier in this thread.